Arty units should give you area denial/control, not insta wipe late game and thus making you win every time.
I lost the count of how many games I lost/won because Panzerwerfer just delete everything it fires on (including medium tanks)
Panzerwerfer overnerfed
11 May 2016, 17:21 PM
#21
Posts: 930
11 May 2016, 17:22 PM
#22
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Are we seriously complaining about a 50% reduction at far damage? All rocket artillery isn't effective at long range and ideally you want to close distance to minimize scatter anyway so why are we complaining about this minimal nerf? (which is nothing compared to the Calliope nerf that same patch). You can't have your cake and eat it too with rocket artillery that has higher scatter at distance and also deals decent damage across that wider scatter range.
This nerf happened for a very good reason - old Panzewerfer had stupid high Alpha strike damage that would wipe and suppress squads even at far distance as a result of Relic's typical overbuffing. You can't just scream 50%! 50%! nerf and act outraged at the number without any context.
This nerf happened for a very good reason - old Panzewerfer had stupid high Alpha strike damage that would wipe and suppress squads even at far distance as a result of Relic's typical overbuffing. You can't just scream 50%! 50%! nerf and act outraged at the number without any context.
11 May 2016, 17:25 PM
#23
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
Each individual Panzerwerfer rocket already deals more damage than a each individual Katyusha rocket.
Sure, there are 16 Katyusha Rockets launched (4 salvos of 4), vs 10 Panzerwerfer rockets. However:
- PWerfer rockets arrive at the same time (thus, are unpredictable)
- PWerfer rockets also insta-pin targetted squads
The Katyusha costs exactly the same amount of resources as the Panzerwerfer (MP/FU/Pop). There is no reason why the Panzerwerfer should further outperform the Katyusha. This is also considering that the cost to build T4 for OST is also going down with the new patch.
Sure, there are 16 Katyusha Rockets launched (4 salvos of 4), vs 10 Panzerwerfer rockets. However:
- PWerfer rockets arrive at the same time (thus, are unpredictable)
- PWerfer rockets also insta-pin targetted squads
The Katyusha costs exactly the same amount of resources as the Panzerwerfer (MP/FU/Pop). There is no reason why the Panzerwerfer should further outperform the Katyusha. This is also considering that the cost to build T4 for OST is also going down with the new patch.
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
11 May 2016, 17:48 PM
#24
Posts: 182
Permanently Banned
You can't just scream 50%! 50%! nerf and act outraged at the number without any context.
Calm down nobody is screaming here expect yourself. I said it isn't as effective as the allied counterparts which is supported by the stats (Ie short duration and Weak damage at the outer distances of its AOE)
Arty units should give you area denial/control, not insta wipe late game and thus making you win every time.Then you might want to nerf Callie/LM/Kat/Pack and basically every ary allied unit since they do both perfectly.
Useless again, better give the role of long range arty to my partner's stuka in 2:2sYeah, but then he we'll be facing two Cromwells
And Mr.Smith, I am not a fan of einsteinian theory crafting as it doesn't bode well for video games discussions. I prefer to play the game as all factions and make unbiased judgments supported by facts and realities of different faction designs.
usf
ostheer
11 May 2016, 18:05 PM
#25
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
And Mr.Smith, I am not a fan of einsteinian theory crafting as it doesn't bode well for video games discussions. I prefer to play the game as all factions and make unbiased judgments supported by facts and realities of different faction designs.
Then state the fact and reality that necessitates widening the gap between the Panzerwerfer and the Katyusha even further.
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
11 May 2016, 18:11 PM
#26
Posts: 182
Permanently BannedTightening
usfostheer
11 May 2016, 18:25 PM
#27
Posts: 1217
Can´t really comment on the Panzerwerfer itself since I find myself hardly ever building Ostheer T4.
However we should see how it works out now that T4 is cheaper and the Brummbär might make going T4 attractive. Haven´t played much of the preview mod yet to see whether it might be more attractive now.
However we should see how it works out now that T4 is cheaper and the Brummbär might make going T4 attractive. Haven´t played much of the preview mod yet to see whether it might be more attractive now.
11 May 2016, 18:28 PM
#28
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
Since I have already covered the exact subject before, you can refer to this thread for the facts:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/47530/did-the-panzerwerfer-really-need-a-damage-buff
(this was made before the Panzerwerfer nerfs).
Also, if you truly think that the Katysha is performing better than the Panzerwerfer, why didn't you ask for the Panzerwerfer to duplicate the Katyusha barrage in the first place?
If you aren't sure how to compare things, you can always ask for help from the community. Otherwise, if you too shy to ask for details, you can always ask "If those two things perform the same job, why aren't those two things mirrored; what trade-offs are there?"
PS: The AoE profile of the Katyusha is still 1/0.35/0.1 (i.e., it's worse than the Panzerwerfer).
https://www.coh2.org/topic/47530/did-the-panzerwerfer-really-need-a-damage-buff
(this was made before the Panzerwerfer nerfs).
Also, if you truly think that the Katysha is performing better than the Panzerwerfer, why didn't you ask for the Panzerwerfer to duplicate the Katyusha barrage in the first place?
If you aren't sure how to compare things, you can always ask for help from the community. Otherwise, if you too shy to ask for details, you can always ask "If those two things perform the same job, why aren't those two things mirrored; what trade-offs are there?"
PS: The AoE profile of the Katyusha is still 1/0.35/0.1 (i.e., it's worse than the Panzerwerfer).
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
11 May 2016, 20:11 PM
#29
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
It's still better than the Soviet Katy. Better at wiping than the Land Mattress as well.
11 May 2016, 20:28 PM
#30
1 
Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
Yes, but bringing it to the same value requires a *1 multiplication.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
11 May 2016, 21:22 PM
#31
9 
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29
I think it is in a pretty good spot, just don't expect it to wipe unless you drive it quite close.
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11 May 2016, 21:51 PM
#32
1 Posts: 1276
Seems to be about as potent as the Kat. It shouldnt be a squad wipe machine but def should take 2-3 models per squad and as such thats its performance rn.
12 May 2016, 00:08 AM
#33
Posts: 247
It shouldnt be a squad wipe machine but def should take 2-3 models per squad and as such thats its performance rn.
Agreed, it's performance now is fine. Ostheer has bigger things to worry about than this unit.
Direct comparison with allied rocket arty doesn't make sense. Allied rocket arty trades alpha damage for more firing duration, which makes it effective at area denial for team weapons but less effective against advancing infantry.
The pzwerfer has more alpha damage which makes it better for inflicting bleed on mobile units. It doesn't wipe that often but the units it hits are heavily damaged and suppressed, making them easy to clean up with a panzer or rifle grenade.
So the units have different roles, to say that the Pzwerfer is straight up worse than the katyusha is just nonsense. The only problem with the pzwerfer is that it's in t4, which is quite hard for OH to reach.
12 May 2016, 00:55 AM
#34
Posts: 1072
I've found that the pwrfer sometimes doesn't make any kills against a heavily defended area of enemies if fire a max range. It needs to drive up super close to be useful and already has the smallest range of any rocket artillery. Its 2x the fuel as the LM and certainly doesn't outperform it.
12 May 2016, 01:50 AM
#35
Posts: 247
I've found that the pwrfer sometimes doesn't make any kills against a heavily defended area of enemies if fire a max range. It needs to drive up super close to be useful and already has the smallest range of any rocket artillery. Its 2x the fuel as the LM and certainly doesn't outperform it.
All rocket arty is inconsistent, that problem isn't exclusive to the pzwerfer.
The cost differential compared to the LM is reflective of the fact the LM is much more vulnerable due to its slow speed and long firing time. Pzwerfer only takes a few seconds to fire before it zips back to safety.
12 May 2016, 02:11 AM
#36
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
its fine. and ost t4 becoming cheaper is indirect buff.
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12 May 2016, 03:25 AM
#37
Posts: 1248
fun fact. PW has better stats than Katy but Katy is better? GabeN
12 May 2016, 03:26 AM
#38
Posts: 414
I never really noticed this was an issue.
It serves 2 roles:
1. Punisher of blobs
2. Softening up fortified positions
It works quite well in both aspects. I use it alot.
It's my go to late game blob punisher, sometimes I can't inflict 400+ mp loss when some decides to rifle blob capture the vp.
As for dug in areas like houses w/ mgs or a bunched up group of at guns, it will soften them up to make your assualt more effective.
It serves 2 roles:
1. Punisher of blobs
2. Softening up fortified positions
It works quite well in both aspects. I use it alot.
It's my go to late game blob punisher, sometimes I can't inflict 400+ mp loss when some decides to rifle blob capture the vp.
As for dug in areas like houses w/ mgs or a bunched up group of at guns, it will soften them up to make your assualt more effective.
12 May 2016, 10:36 AM
#39
Posts: 182
Permanently BannedI've found that the pwrfer sometimes doesn't make any kills....I've noticed that as well, even at medium range.
usfostheer
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