Why Ostheer is currently not much fun in my opinion

Hello guys, finally not a salt thread because I have won a few games
But honestly, I used to like playing Ostheer the most since the release of CoH2. Sure, OKW is cool but Ostheer has always been the most well rounded faction in my opinion.

But currently Ostheer is behind the other factions from my point of view. The faction was always designed to be more an end game faction and to be the most defensive one.

With its strong MG42 and PaKs this has always been the case, but since the last few patches and especially with the introduction of the Brits things have changed.

The current meta is all about rushing a fast light tank. While the OKW can get PaKs and Panzershrecks, maybe also a Puma, to defend the AEC / T70 / Stuart at about min 6, Ostheer does not have a single reliable counter other than the 222 which isn't even meant to be a light vehicle counter since you need to build at least two to have a chance to counter the allied light tanks.

I don't want to discuss why the AEC is a light tank while the 222 (both armoured cars) is made out of wood. Ostheer players receive flames for double 222s, which I can understand because it surely is frustrating to play against because the AI is also not that bad.

But you know why we play double 222? Because there is NOTHING we can do besides this strat.
Of course you can say, why not get a PaK instead? Because a PaK needs 2 to 3 shots to kill a light tank and this AT gun misses A LOT. In addition the T70 can auto repair and the AEC can smoke away. You have to be a lucky guy for it to hit a teller mine because otherwise the tank will simply circle the PaK, kill it and steal it, which means you lose 320 MP which is your death as Ostheer.

The most intense time while playing Ostheer is not the late game but the time when the first light tank arrives. Speaking for me, I lose a lot of MP when the first light tank arrives because I can't field my 222s earlier. You need all your MP for Grens, MGs and a Mortar to hold your fuel point and MAYBE the munitions point in the early game. Holding more than 40% of the map against an Allied player with the same skill is nearly impossible. And when the light tank arrives, you get pushed back to the base. Retreat your MGs because otherwise they die like flies (have you seen how T70s snipe these days?!).

Panzerfausts are no viable solutions as you get kited and lose a lot of models and eventually get a squadwipe on retreat. You can get Panzergrens but you won't have enough money for Panzershrecks. And while your army is in your base and you cannot do anything but wait until the AT armada (222s) have arrived, your enemy steals the rest of your map.

Especially playing against the Brits is a torture in 1v1 because their MGs in houses are a real frustration. Yes you can get a mortar, but how do you cap the map? After 1 MG and 2 Grens + Mortar you HAVE to tech to T2 because the AEC is on its way. (A little side note: On some maps, e.g. Lost Glider north, it is gg when the British MG reaches the house on the cutoff point before you do).

I just want to hear if you also share the same experiences? The fuel cost increase for T2 was very hard for the Ostheer faction. Before you could field a PaK about a minute before light tanks arrived, which was okay in my opinion. But now you have to wait for 60 Fuel before you can field one. The lack of Ostheer map pressure results in the enemy having more ressources than you do (I'm not talking about double sniper tactics which are a bit too cheesy in my opinion).

My suggestion would be: Decrease the price for the T2 research again (to about 25 or 30) and add a "research 222" ability for 15 or 20 fuel similar to the AEC one of the brits. Ostheer players could then get a PaK for defense purposes but still the 222 would arrive the way it does now or a bit later.

Don't understand why "current meta is about rushing light tanks" actually. Maybe in 1v1/2v2 it's so, but in higher games light tanks are still pretty useless. But anyway, my personal opinion - in all games making light tanks is throwing resourses on 3 mins effective unit, cos light tanks cost a lot of fuel. Better save that fuel for to get normal mediums faster, I think... Mediums are fine for to counter lights, infantry, whatever else you don't like.

Your suggestion is strange... Ostheer T2 research coming pretty fast for me, cos T1 units don't require fuel, T1 building is cheap and Ost have no need to spend fuel on grenade or weapon upgrades. Everything is OK here.

About 222 - pretty strange to whine about "210+15+ unit, compare it with AEC cost or T-70. But still, bunch of 222s can deal with those units pretty fast.

That reminds me case with "T-34-76 and Panthers". First are cheap, but pretty ineffective themselvs, seconds - not cheap but really powerfull. 222 car is pretty much same "T-34-76" of light vechiles, while AEC and Stuarts are "Panthers". If it is ok with medium tanks - why is it wrong with lights?

I don't have a problem against brits, build and MG then a sniper and you are good to go. The AEC will want to get your sniper so place a mine and bait it, that however, is luck.

2 222's and a faust is easy to kill the AEC no problem, I hardly get PAK's as OST until late mid - late game, the additional micro isn't needed and as you said they just get circle strafed too easy when caught out of position.

My biggest problem as OST is the lack of green cover they can build, it makes defending points a lot harder than it needs to be, often relying on 150MP bunkers which delays units further.

OST mortars vs SU mortar = dead ost mortar

hell, anything vs SU = dead anything especially with the fast flame blobs/easy spam units.

Brits I can stand toe to toe with all the time, SU and UKF however, I just can't beat their blobs, MG's get flamed or smoked, and any push I make gets ruined by indirect snipes, and I mean snipes. Fuck you Pack howi, fuck you.

OST mortars vs SU mortar = dead ost mortar

I don't know what you have been smoking, but I want to be that delusional too.

Werh indirect fire is the most accurate in this game, laser accurate sometimes.

Also, the soviet mortar is bugged right now, so it is pretty much useless (it was never good to start with).

I don't know what you have been smoking, but I want to be that delusional too.

Werh indirect fire is the most accurate in this game, laser accurate sometimes.

Also, the soviet mortar is bugged right now, so it is pretty much useless (it was never good to start with).

Soviet mortar is most accurate mortar,ostheer one has highest ROF.

I don't agree with your opinion on Ostheer. Ost has quite a few ways to deal with light vehicles.

There is the nondoctinal teller mine that 1-shots all light vehicles.
There is the nondoctrinal faust that you don't need to unlock.
Nondoctrinal and cheap scout car that counters light vehicles cost effectively.
Nondoctrinal Panzerschrek team for urban maps.
AT gun.
You can combine these units in several ways or you could supplement them with doctrinal stuff such as the panzerschrek 250 clownhalftrack.

The 60 fuel treshold for T2 is fine since it does not only provide a broad repertoire of units, but also includes grenade and LMG tech.

As for dealing with MGs in buildings, Ost has snipers, nondoctrinal mortars with smoke, nondoctrinal flamers and nondoctrinal grenades. I am sure you can find a way to combine these units and abilities to clear a building.

Agreed with OP.
Never liked the power of light vehicles in general, mostly because am OST fanboi
It's not fun to play against as OST, since it, besides double 222, requires the opponent to make a severe mistake.
Fun to play with, though.
Elegant solution is to make Panzer III to counter light vehicles, in T2 structure and unlocked with BP2, cheap fuel wise (so it comes out juuuust a little bit after the other light vehicles, all in all).

I have to agree that ostheer is somewhat underwhelming in the current meta.

A major problem is that since grens dont compete very well early vs allied inf, you have to rely heavily on support units which means you will sacrifice map control.

This makes it very difficult to prevent allied players from rushing out a light vehicle which can deal with your 222s (AEC, Stuart, t70).

The biggest issue is that ost dont have a reliable form of mobile AT since unless you use call ins like puma or stug e. Also there is no light tank. People will say get shrecks but for a munition starved faction (lmgs, medics,tellers etc) this isnt exactly easy and your other option the pak will hurt your map control.

This is why Ost could use another vehicles such as the panzer 3 or hotchkiss.

This is why Ost could use another vehicles such as the panzer 3 or hotchkiss.

hotchkiss

HOTCHKISS

HOTCHKISS

HOTCHKISS

HOTCHKISS

Paging Tobis.

I have to agree that ostheer is somewhat underwhelming in the current meta.

This is why Ost could use another vehicles such as the panzer 3 or hotchkiss.

No Panthers then, OK? Or panther-level tank to USSR without doctrines, pls.

No Panthers then, OK? Or panther-level tank to USSR without doctrines, pls.

That reply has absolutely nothing to do with the topic and is simply dumb.

That reply has absolutely nothing to do with the topic and is simply dumb.

Nope, people here suggesting to give to faction, which is already full of all possible kinds of vechiles 1 more - light tanks. That's ridiculous.

Ostheers are obviously late-game orientated faction, one of the tools, which making it so are non doc half-heavy tanks Panthers. If you want to make Ostheer more powerful in middle game - refuse from power in late. That will be fair. You just can't make faction, which is 100% effective at all game stages, you will get second UKF.

Nope, people here suggesting to give to faction, which is already full of all possible kinds of vechiles 1 more - light tanks. That's ridiculous.

So ridiculous that every single meta Soviet commander gives them late game vehicles.

Ostheer has plenty of great AT options (ex. Teller mine, Pak 40, 2x Pschrecks); however, the grenadiers seem way to vulnerable for them being mainline infantry, even when on the defensive. My solution to this problem is:

• Increase squad member spacing.
  
• Slightly decrease received accuracy when in cover (from it's current state).

So ridiculous that every single meta Soviet commander gives them late game vehicles.

That explains, why they are in meta - they giving to you more or less normal late gameplay, because without doctrines soviet late is pretty weak.

And I don't really think, that Ostheers should have with their units any problems with middle game, really. Ostheers are fully equiped for to deal with enemy light tanks. Buy panzerschrecks and catch them, plant those big AT mines, use PaK, use 222 cars, which are pretty efficient for their low cost...

You guys reminding me billionares, which already have entire world in their hands, but want more, more and more. Be happy about what you have, others don't have even that, like USSR without non-doc AT weapons for infantry. Or without cheap and anti-everything scout cars in early tiers.

That explains, why they are in meta - they giving to you more or less normal late gameplay, because without doctrines soviet late is pretty weak.

And I don't really think, that Ostheers should have with their units any problems with middle game, really. Ostheers are fully equiped for to deal with enemy light tanks. Buy panzerschrecks and catch them, plant those big AT mines, use PaK, use 222 cars, which are pretty efficient for their low cost...

You guys reminding me billionares, which already have entire world in their hands, but want more, more and more. Be happy about what you have, others don't have even that, like USSR without non-doc AT weapons for infantry. Or without cheap and anti-everything scout cars in early tiers.

That hypocrisy is astounding. You have been bitching for months trying to get non-doc AT weapons for soviets, but it is wrong to want a light tank for a faction that doesn't even have a doctrinal one?

Honestly, I don't find the ostheer unbalanced, I find them boring AF. You are on the defensive with a ton of AT guns, and you have to turtle and hopefully bleed the enemy hard enough. You are normally forced into mobile defense if you don't go for osttruppen for map control so faction picks aren't super diverse. It's kind of sad that the entire faction ends up getting stuck on tier 2 so often.

Honestly, I don't find the ostheer unbalanced, I find them boring AF

At least it's not as boring as the British sim city...

without doctrines soviet late is pretty weak.

Well gosh golly gee, good thing that they come with doctrines!