Why Ostheer is currently not much fun in my opinion

Fix double LMG blob for Brits/USF, increase Gren spacing a bit, buff Ostwind/Pgrens/Assgrens and Ost should be fine. Their main issue is dealing with the Western Allies 2x LMG infantry, which these changes would help with.

There is the nondoctinal teller mine that 1-shots all light vehicles.

If I have to decide what should I get betwen risky teller or LMG to deal with powerfull amove infantiere, conlusion is easy

There is the nondoctrinal faust that you don't need to unlock.

Yes, at top 1000. Really it good example for countering light vehicles? Furthermore, you need T1 and almost every infantry has that.

Nondoctrinal and cheap scout car that counters light vehicles cost effectively.

It's not that cheap, 210MP is quite big for unit without any armor.

Nondoctrinal Panzerschrek team for urban maps.

Urban maps? Hmm, I think there is actually two or even one...

AT gun.

PaK is very good against heavies, terrible against light with his aim time. Need at least two which is heavy investment

You can combine these units in several ways or you could supplement them with doctrinal stuff such as the panzerschrek 250 clownhalftrack.

In most cases, you are forced to play something with Ace or Tiger, won't work. Also, 250 is too expencive to do fancy thigs like that.

Yes, I've been play since game release. You might as well just ask Relic when CoH3 is coming out, cause its just random issues every time a new patch comes out for CoH2. As of Current, the Brit mortars just shred Ostheer. Also, the Tiger tank is just a worthless by the time it comes out. I remember when the tiger was a feared tank, but now its just pansie tank.

same goes for panthers..

Fix double LMG blob for Brits/USF, increase Gren spacing a bit, buff Ostwind/Pgrens/Assgrens and Ost should be fine. Their main issue is dealing with the Western Allies 2x LMG infantry, which these changes would help with.

This I think - ostheer maintains its pack of cards status (i.e. collapses like one) for too long. Everything is too squishy and when a blob folds in one corner of your defence the whole thing falls to bits. If they fail they can just retreat and come from another angle until they have success. Some kind of fire fighter unit that doesn't have to be set facing the right way or drop half its models when sneezed at or be killed by units its meant to hard counter would go a long way to reduce this fragility. It shouldn't be much - and buffing these units wouldn't break the game as they are rare and have their own hard counters.

same goes for panthers..

As it was said. German tanks aren´t allowed to be strong in this game or the forum army of justice will squeal "Wehraboo" and "Kruppsteehl".

Ostheer was about good tanks to compensate for the lack of early game. Now they have neither.

As it was said. German tanks aren´t allowed to be strong in this game or the forum army of justice will squeal "Wehraboo" and "Kruppsteehl".

Ostheer was about good tanks to compensate for the lack of early game. Now they have neither.

Besides the tiger I think the tanks are all about right - skill gets rewarded. However the cromwell needs a price increase and Ostheer needs to handle UKF and USF infantry slightly better so paks and pgrens can actually stay in play and support the tanks

If you think that of OST, then you are either:
a. Doing it wrong; or
b. Have picked the wrong commander.
Ever heard of an Ostwind + P4 flank combo, with a halftrack and pios to cap?

Sorry, should've specified. This is the case in 1v1. You play 4v4 mainly so I can see where you are coming from.

The stats on win rates suggest that Ostheer aren't underpowered (at least in high-skill matches) but I agree they aren't a very enjoyable faction to play. For me this is primarily due to unexciting doctrines as well as a defensive playstyle with unsatisfying micro requirements. It's not that they necessarily take more micro, just that manoeuvring rifle squads in flanking attacks or tearing around the battlefield with a t70 is more fun than making sure your PaK is facing the right way.

I agree that the light tank meta isn't that fun, especially the role of tellers. Too often games are decided by how long it takes for the allied tank to hit a teller. I get that there is an element of skill in placing the mine in an unexpected place or baiting the tank onto it, but it still feels too random to me. I think the Riegel is better implemented in that it still is a serious threat but doesn't instantly kill tanks.

The big sag in relative power for OH is in the late T2 stage when you start getting hit with indirect and light tanks, yet your first t3 vehicle seems impossibly far away. So I think the balance preview is doing a decent job by making t3&4 slightly cheaper. It would be nice if OH had more doctrinal options to assist in this vulnerable period at the expense of foregoing late-game callins, all they have is mobile defense which is why that doctrine is so meta right now.

Ostheer in 1s isnt much fun because you either cheese to the hilt, or you'll get walked over even by horribly mediocre players. Every other faction (yes, even OKW) offers more varied but still viable playstyles that don't need a sniper to trade, or a Puma panic button...

Maybe relic can start by changing the completely useless vet1 that grenadiers have into something useful...

op card says he is not much of a pro. L2P until at least top 200 with any fac.
Shadowwada is constantly raging about how op this fac is this patch.

In a normal hands they have load of shit to abuse starting with minimum 1 extra squad at the beggining and cheaper unlock of every unit type. Several of their docs allow to negate squad wipes while also having tiger in it.
i once uploaded game vs oh when i wiped 67 squads - i dont think its possible with other facs

op card says he is not much of a pro. L2P until at least top 200 with any fac.
Shadowwada is constantly raging about how op this fac is this patch.

So me and many others in this thread who are not pros because we play this game for fun and maybe not for the cheese simply need to l2p?

So every CoH2 player except the mentioned 200 people should have a lot less fun playing Ostheer than other factions? Yes, players have mentioned the counters but still a major part of the players think that Ostheer has little to no room for mistakes whereas other factions don't come even close to the playing pressure while performing better.

Even if "l2p" is the case, it's simply frustrating the "not-so-skilled" players like me and about 80% of the rest.

I dont know but after finally reaching the later game i often(95% tbh)) find myself unable to maintain 2 or more vehicles (even a 222 and p4 combo takes literally minutes to get on the field again. Its getting worse if you have a tiger and a p4 for example, you will spend 1% fighting with them and the rest of the time beeing damaged and repaired.

Huge cost+ high popcap for Pios arent helping either

op card says he is not much of a pro. L2P until at least top 200 with any fac.

Good thing you are still rank #195.

Personally i find Everybody needs to l2p until atleast #130 with any fac

I dont know but after finally reaching the later game i often(95% tbh)) find myself unable to maintain 2 or more vehicles (even a 222 and p4 combo takes literally minutes to get on the field again. Its getting worse if you have a tiger and a p4 for example, you will spend 1% fighting with them and the rest of the time beeing damaged and repaired.

Huge cost+ high popcap for Pios arent helping either

I also noticed that. While I still like the P4 very much, the Tiger is extremely underperfoming and losing to every other heavy tank and in addition to every other tank that is fielded more than one time, e.g. double Su76.

Good thing you are still rank #195.

Personally i find Everybody needs to l2p until atleast #130 with any fac

based on our games your ranks seems strange to me since i had easy games with you

both axis facs have definately more room for mistakes.
no fuel point is required to get lights.
Today i lost a game after wiping 2 spios and losing none. If my 600 mp got wiped i woud never get anything heavier than infantry. But he got his light no problem. For brits its even worse

based on our games your ranks seems strange to me since i had easy games with you

both axis facs have definately more room for mistakes.
no fuel point is required to get lights.
Today i lost a game after wiping 2 spios and losing none. If my 600 mp got wiped i woud never get anything heavier than infantry. But he got his light no problem. For brits its even worse

Wierd i always thought the same about your rank, and the easy games I had against you

easy games that you lost

easy games that you lost

We only played exactly 2 times against each other and it went 1-1 so you rekt me hard i guess

i rekt you second game totaly in a macro game. In first i was in better spot. But little room for mistakes 1 rushed vehicle lost = lost game.