Why Ostheer is currently not much fun in my opinion

In my opinion Ost AT options depent much more on "skill". Tellers, paks and PG-Schrecks all are potent options but no "nobrainers". Ostheer don't forgive mistakes.....
And what the hell is wrong with you MissCommissar? You produce so much nonsense stuff in this forum. Play more and post less pls.

There is the nondoctinal teller mine that 1-shots all light vehicles.
There is the nondoctrinal faust that you don't need to unlock.
Nondoctrinal and cheap scout car that counters light vehicles cost effectively.
Nondoctrinal Panzerschrek team for urban maps.
AT gun.
You can combine these units in several ways or you could supplement them with doctrinal stuff

In my opinion Ost AT options depent much more on "skill". Tellers, paks and PG-Schrecks all are potent options but no "nobrainers". Ostheer don't forgive mistakes.....

+1

Early on you use a combination of all the tools you have at your disposal. You don't go for a single hardcounter (unless Puma) but you build a net of counters. In general, for cost, the 222 is OP at 15f and the best tool to soft deal with any of the lights.
Also you are over exaggerating the timings. By no means a Stuart/T70/Aec arrive at the same time.
M20 > AAHT >> M5/AeC > Stuart >> T70

SU: the T70 by no means arrives as fast as all the other light vehicles. Fastest way to pump out a light would also mean no AT nade research. Fastest vehicle you can pull out is an M5.
UKF: while the Aec arrives faster, it way easier to deal with as AI is not as great as it used to be.
USF: abuse sniper. If Cpt is the first tech, your sniper has impunity as they have nothing they can do. Ambulance/Nades/Racks will delay the Stuart even further.

I know how you feel OP.
I used to play a lot of Ostheer and in some way it is my favorite faction but right now I just can't make it work for me. I can't figure out why though. It is correct that they have a lot of great tools but somehow it feels like it is so much harder to achieve anything with Ost as it is right now.

Usually you get the advice to get to the late game because this is where Ostheer shines but right now this is incredibly hard. And on top Brits late game outshines Osts late imo.

It's just a huge struggle with tons of micro involved to get mediocre results that you can more easily achieve with the other factions.

But on the bright side whenever I win a game as Ost I feel a lot prouder then with any other faction especially because I tend to avoid meta and refuse to play double sniper or 444.

That hypocrisy is astounding. You have been bitching for months trying to get non-doc AT weapons for soviets, but it is wrong to want a light tank for a faction that doesn't even have a doctrinal one?

If they come together I will agree. But I can say that's hypocrisy from you actually - resisit to non-doc AT for USSR, but support light tanks for Ostheer.

Btw again, Ostheer middle game is not that bad. They are fully equiped for to deal with light tanks.

If they come together I will agree. But I can say that's hypocrisy from you actually - resisit to non-doc AT for USSR, but support light tanks for Ostheer.

Btw again, Ostheer middle game is not that bad. They are fully equiped for to deal with light tanks.

There is already tank hunters doctrine for soviets. There is no light tank doctrine for Ost. Asking for either option non-doctrinally is never going to happen.

Why do you think that the only reason to want a light tank is to counter other light tanks? Light tanks are a good breakthrough unit for dealing with infantry and support weapons and something to force the enemy into getting AT.

Why do you think that the only reason to want a light tank is to counter other light tanks? Light tanks are a good breakthrough unit for dealing with infantry and support weapons and something to force the enemy into getting AT.

Ostheer can get the quickest halftrack to reinforce pushes on the front line. Teching to this unit also unlocks grenades and LMGs. This combo can be used to do some very nice pushes early game breakthrough pushes as long as you remember to follow it up with a scout car if the enemy is going for light vehicles.

There is already tank hunters doctrine for soviets. There is no light tank doctrine for Ost. Asking for either option non-doctrinally is never going to happen.

Why do you think that the only reason to want a light tank is to counter other light tanks? Light tanks are a good breakthrough unit for dealing with infantry and support weapons and something to force the enemy into getting AT.

Tank hunters doctrine is pretty weak, rarely I see it. There is no light tank doctrine for Ost because they have cheap and effective against infantry/supports/lights/aircrafts 222 cars only for 210 + 15 - what more do you need, again?

I won't argue against light tanks for Ostheer only if in same time most "lack of everything" faction USSR will get something too. Handheld AT weapons, T-34-85 without doctrines, normal infantry without doctrines. Just something useful without doctrines already pleaaase! That will be fair, I think.

MissComissar can you pls stop to waste all of our time with your nonsense posts. This is a thread to discuss about Ostheer early AT-options and not for some random sov stuff.

Hey if teller mines actually reliably exploded and hurt vehicles, that'd be nice.

Can't tell you how many times I've baited an enemy tank into tellers only to have them explode for 0.

Ostheer went downhill since the Brits arrived.

No other faction gets punished as severely as Ostheer for making a mistake due to the four men squads. The fragility of Ostheer early game is intended. Or to be more specific: It used to be intended. Ostheer could compensate with its lategame advantage for the lack of good early game. Brits destroyed this concept of lategame advantage, the additional tier that was until then exclusive to Ostheer. And even USF and Soviets were buffed in their lategame performance.

Nowadays Ostheer struggles through the early game and tries to perform against overwhelming odds only to find itself in a mediocre lategame. There is no light at the end of the tunnel so to say. No compensation for your fragile units, no reward for staying ingame. Sure, there were some buffs to Ostheer early game but none compensated the four men squads and punishment for even the slightest mistakes.

But a good German lategame is seen as blasphemy by many and thus we are here now wondering why Ostheer is neutered. The least that could be done would be a 5man upgrade like the Brits have since mirroring the factions seems to be a thing now.

I don't agree with your opinion on Ostheer. Ost has quite a few ways to deal with light vehicles.

There is the nondoctinal teller mine that 1-shots all light vehicles.
There is the nondoctrinal faust that you don't need to unlock.
Nondoctrinal and cheap scout car that counters light vehicles cost effectively.
Nondoctrinal Panzerschrek team for urban maps.
AT gun.
You can combine these units in several ways or you could supplement them with doctrinal stuff such as the panzerschrek 250 clownhalftrack.

The 60 fuel treshold for T2 is fine since it does not only provide a broad repertoire of units, but also includes grenade and LMG tech.

As for dealing with MGs in buildings, Ost has snipers, nondoctrinal mortars with smoke, nondoctrinal flamers and nondoctrinal grenades. I am sure you can find a way to combine these units and abilities to clear a building.

this

Really great post. I liked basically everything about it. When I'm playing Ost, I totally agree.

BUT.

If I step back and think, I feel there's an argument of Ost having to spam shitty light vehicles (so to speak) to compete with superior Soviet light armor but Soviet has to spam shitty t-34s to compete with superior German medium armor so it kind of balances out in my mind.

Brits kind of change things up, but they have other weaknesses.

Ost really needs some late game love. The tiger nerfs aren't helping considering they were already, at the time, meh.

There is a reason why the puma and stug e are the most popular doctrines in high lvl 1v1.

Top players are forced to go for them not cuz they want to.

Ostheer went downhill since the Brits arrived.

No other faction gets punished as severely as Ostheer for making a mistake due to the four men squads. The fragility of Ostheer early game is intended. Or to be more specific: It used to be intended. Ostheer could compensate with its lategame advantage for the lack of good early game. Brits destroyed this concept of lategame advantage, the additional tier that was until then exclusive to Ostheer. And even USF and Soviets were buffed in their lategame performance.

Nowadays Ostheer struggles through the early game and tries to perform against overwhelming odds only to find itself in a mediocre lategame. There is no light at the end of the tunnel so to say. No compensation for your fragile units, no reward for staying ingame. Sure, there were some buffs to Ostheer early game but none compensated the four men squads and punishment for even the slightest mistakes.

But a good German lategame is seen as blasphemy by many and thus we are here now wondering why Ostheer is neutered. The least that could be done would be a 5man upgrade like the Brits have since mirroring the factions seems to be a thing now.

This.

I agree with much of this. Osteer is still one of my favorite factions to play, but only because of it's sniper bleed potential and support role mid and late game. Ever since the introduction of brits, OST really went downhill, which is why we need a third axis faction, but that is another discussion.

Four man easily ROFL wipable squads is extremely punishing for OSt and cripples their options. Their late game used to be really good, but now the Tiger isn't that good, and Brit Comets outshine panthers.

Where they do shine is in support. Festung support is amazing, but goes against what the faction is supposed to be, since it's other units are so lackluster. The mortar halftrack and LEFH arty is great for supporting OKW, a faction that has proper options for assault, whereas OST have way too easily wipable infantry that it cant properly assault.

USSR also have problems in other departments, unlike OST, but to the same effect. Honestly, OST and USSR could use reworks to make them 'modern" like USF, OKW and UKF. A forward retreat point is the first step.

Ostheer went downhill since the Brits arrived.

No other faction gets punished as severely as Ostheer for making a mistake due to the four men squads. The fragility of Ostheer early game is intended. Or to be more specific: It used to be intended. Ostheer could compensate with its lategame advantage for the lack of good early game. Brits destroyed this concept of lategame advantage, the additional tier that was until then exclusive to Ostheer. And even USF and Soviets were buffed in their lategame performance.

Nowadays Ostheer struggles through the early game and tries to perform against overwhelming odds only to find itself in a mediocre lategame. There is no light at the end of the tunnel so to say. No compensation for your fragile units, no reward for staying ingame. Sure, there were some buffs to Ostheer early game but none compensated the four men squads and punishment for even the slightest mistakes.

But a good German lategame is seen as blasphemy by many and thus we are here now wondering why Ostheer is neutered. The least that could be done would be a 5man upgrade like the Brits have since mirroring the factions seems to be a thing now.

wow finally someone

I agree that a change has to happen with Ostheer but buffing the light vehicle (222) to counter the allied light vehicles doesn't have to be the only solution.

I'd propose to increase the fuel cost of the Allied light vehicles, this way the vehicles come out but at a later time giving Ostheer more options and less boring singular meta play.

Honestly, I don't find the ostheer unbalanced, I find them boring AF. You are on the defensive with a ton of AT guns, and you have to turtle and hopefully bleed the enemy hard enough. You are normally forced into mobile defense if you don't go for osttruppen for map control so faction picks aren't super diverse. It's kind of sad that the entire faction ends up getting stuck on tier 2 so often.

If you think that of OST, then you are either:
a. Doing it wrong; or
b. Have picked the wrong commander.
Ever heard of an Ostwind + P4 flank combo, with a halftrack and pios to cap?

At least it's not as boring as the British sim city...

+1

UKF: while the Aec arrives faster, it way easier to deal with as AI is not as great as it used to be.
USF: abuse sniper. If Cpt is the first tech, your sniper has impunity as they have nothing they can do. Ambulance/Nades/Racks will delay the Stuart even further.

What game have you been playing that USF has a sniper???

Yes, I've been play since game release. You might as well just ask Relic when CoH3 is coming out, cause its just random issues every time a new patch comes out for CoH2. As of Current, the Brit mortars just shred Ostheer. Also, the Tiger tank is just a worthless by the time it comes out. I remember when the tiger was a feared tank, but now its just pansie tank.

If you think that of OST, then you are either:
a. Doing it wrong; or
b. Have picked the wrong commander.
Ever heard of an Ostwind + P4 flank combo, with a halftrack and pios to cap?


+1



What game have you been playing that USF has a sniper???

sniper against usa?