[Mod Request] Garrisonable Mortar Pits

I haven't the slightest clue about creating my own mods. However this is for a good cause.

Brief description

I want to see whether it is modable to build a Mortar Pit emplacement that feels more like a trench, than the immersion breaking "building" that the maligned mortar pit is known for.

The UKF player will be able to build mortars from their T2, and they will have the option of building vacant mortar pits for their mortars. While the mortars are located inside the mortar pit, they can benefit from:
- Some kind of defensive bonus (something better than heavy cover)
- Some kind of offensive bonus

The bonuses could be arbitrary (e.g., -10% reload time. -60% damage taken).

The idea is that if this is moddable and visually-appealing, we might be able to convince Relic to accepting this into the mainline.

Why this is important

Currently, the Mortar Pit is the cornerstone and the cause of the Brit sim city. Suppose you want to build a Bofors:
- Brits lack mobile indirect fire
- The mortar pit is expensive, so that it is not too spammable
- Thus, the mortar pit has to outrange all other indirect fire (otherwise it is useless)
- This creates a problem when you want to take down a Bofors cannon that is flanked by 2 mortar pits.

If we could create a garrisonable mortar pit, we could immediately do the following:
- The mortar pit will have absolutely no more need for its insane range (if you are under attack, you can relocate)
- No more need for brace (overwhelmed? you can retreat)
- No need to retain bofors barrage (if you want to defend your bofors, you can relocate your mortars)

Detailed description

Basically, this mod should give the UKF player the ability to create the following two entities;

1. The Brit 3 inch mortar

If the animations for it exist in the game files, then please do. Otherwise, just copy-paste any existing mortar and call it the 3 inch mortar. I don't think anybody will care.

The stats of the mortar are irrelevant.

2. Mortar Pit

Basically, this is an empty pit. While there is no mortar garrisoned, it would be nice if you could completely remove both the crew and the mortars to simulate a vacant pit.

If it is not possible to remove the mortars, you can simulate this by simply removing the crew.

Garrisoned pit

Since Relic gave us a double-mortar pit, this is where it gets tricky. If you could make the visual representation match the number of garrisoned mortars, that would be awesome.

e.g., if there is only one mortar garrisoned, there should be only one mortar visible.

Mortar Pit buffs

Make them something minor (like -10% reload time etc). However, please be sure that the buffs:
- Apply on each mortar only once
- Are removed from the mortars once they exit the pit

(i.e., no buff stacking)

Pit/Mortar death events

Let's make the Mortar Pit a bit more durable than the trench, so that Mortars will, realistically, die first before the pit is destroyed.

Both the proposed modifications aim to make the mortar pit less of a death trap for the garrisoned mortars (else, why would you EVER place 2 mortars in such a vicinity to one another).

- Mortar dies

When a mortar dies inside the pit, the mortar should drop outside of the pit and be recrewable.

- Pit dies

Both mortars survive and remain where the mortar pit was previously at (just like an MG team does when the occupied trench is destroyed)

Mortar variety (optional)

It is entirely possible that a UKF player may capture other factions' mortars. If it is possible to copy-paste the garrisoned mortar stats into the mortar pit weapons. That would be great.

If it would also be possible to copy-paste the visual style of the garrisoned mortar it would be ace!

In the grand scheme of things, it won't matter as much, though.

Barrage/abilities from within the mortar pit

If possible, it would be nice to be able to access the mortars' barrage ability while the mortars are garrisoned (otherwise, why would people garrison their mortars if it makes their ability less accessible than before?)

If this is not possible, it would be nice to copy-paste the barrage weapon stats into the mortar weapon entity (just like the procedure outlined in the "Mortar variety" subsection).

In the latter case, the mortar pit emplacement would endow a permanent barrage-status ability to the garrisoned mortars, and that would be the only buff that it provides.

What about Bofors/17pdr?

We can solve the Bofors problem easily by making it something between the OKW flak base and the OKW flak emplacement. There should be some middle ground where Bofors can stand up on its own, be counterable by indirect fire and AT fire, and hold up against infantry. Brace is optional here (since there's Popcap requirements).

The 17pdr makes absolutely no sense as an emplacement. It is currently counterable by AT guns and tanks (which it should counter instead). On the other hand, it is nearly invulnerable to infantry rushes (which it should be completely vulnerable to). Copy-pasting a unit that works (Pak43) would be the best idea, I believe.

There are two major problems with this:

1. As far as I know, the 3-inch mortars and the pit are one and the same model. I don't think there is an animation state for hiding one or both mortars.
2. It is currently impossible to make a mobile 3-inch mortar team with working animations. (See this thread.)

Your idea can probably be made into a mod, although not everything would look good. To me, the main question here is whether it's really necessary to use the mortar pit model at all, because that's what would take the most effort.

The easiest way I can think of would indeed be using another mortar model - the US M1 81mm is probably the best choice - and restoring the mortar-related functionality that trenches once had. (I did that for my commander mod, it's not much work.) But that's not quite what you had in mind, is it?

Thanks for getting back to me!

We could certainly replace the mobile mortar version with another model (nobody is going to notice that anyway)

The main reason it would be a nice idea to have the mod look as similar to the live version would be to aid its adoption, basically. Since Relic decided to go with double-mortar Pits in this iteration of CoH, this makes things complicated.

Initially I thought:
- We have a decrewed animation for the mortar pit (there used to be an abandoned critical)
- Would it be possible to create a half-crewed animation (only one mortar operating)

However, now that I have read your reply and I have been thinking about it some more, it will look completely awkward for the following reasons:
- It is not going to be possible to make the mortar pit crews consistent with the crews actually manning the mortars.
- The attackers will probably be attacking the mortar pit itself, and there's not going to be any animation playing when a mortar crew dies.

Do you have a link to your commander mod? I never had the opportunity to use garrisoned mortars. I only figured out that the possibility existed when I read the patch notes that this was getting removed.

Initially I thought:
- We have a decrewed animation for the mortar pit (there used to be an abandoned critical)
- Would it be possible to create a half-crewed animation (only one mortar operating)

I'll have to take a closer look at the animations again, but I think this would be possible.

However, now that I have read your reply and I have been thinking about it some more, it will look completely awkward for the following reasons:
- It is not going to be possible to make the mortar pit crews consistent with the crews actually manning the mortars.
- The attackers will probably be attacking the mortar pit itself, and there's not going to be any animation playing when a mortar crew dies.

That is indeed true, but the second would be the case for trenches as well! Although it might look slightly less awkward.

Do you have a link to your commander mod? I never had the opportunity to use garrisoned mortars. I only figured out that the possibility existed when I read the patch notes that this was getting removed.

Sure, here you go: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=635567216
It's in the German Defensive and Infantry doctrines. There might be a lot of bugs, because I haven't worked on it for about a month and Relic made some alterations to the Attribute Editor in the meantime, but the last time I checked, mortars in trenches worked fine: You could garrison them while retaining full functionality. Currently, that includes only the Ostheer GrW34, however!

That is indeed true, but the second would be the case for trenches as well! Although it might look slightly less awkward.

You are right. I kind of completely forgot that garrisoned models kind of "disappear" when they die. That's great, because the idea of disappearing models from mortar pits will not look so alien after all!

Sure, here you go: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=635567216
It's in the German Defensive and Infantry doctrines. There might be a lot of bugs, because I haven't worked on it for about a month and Relic made some alterations to the Attribute Editor in the meantime, but the last time I checked, mortars in trenches worked fine: You could garrison them while retaining full functionality. Currently, that includes only the Ostheer GrW34, however!

Thanks! I just tried it and it looks great!

I am going to have a jab at the following tasks, and I would appreciate your expertise to help answer whether those tasks are "doable" or "it's probably impossible/too much work/don't even bother"

This is what a plaussible roadmap would look like:

1) Let's assume that I would like to extend the trenches you used for the Defensive commander so that they can hold 2 mortars at the same time. Would it be possible to control the both mortars' abilities while having the trench selected?

2) What is the easiest way to bestow a small buff (e.g., to reload) to garrisoned mortars (i.e., least amount of work)

3) I would like to take the Mortar Pit building model and turn it into a garrisonable Trench thing. What I mean is that whichever mortar & crew is garrisoned is visible at preset locations on the mortar pit (like they currently are visible around the middle of the trench). (Let's ignore the fact that we also have the 2 abandoned mortars there). Would this be a doable task?

From my (users') experience with garrisons, there seem to be 2 kinds of them:

- Ambient buildings: Garrisoned units will instantly zoom to whichever window is closest to the enemy. That looks a bit awkward
- Trenches: Units will tend to remain at their garrisoned spots, without zooming (or I've never noticed that because of the net).

Would it be possible to:
- Take the Mortar Pit building
- Assign the precise spots where units should appear (8 of them basically, since I have 2 mortars and max crewsize is 4 for each)
- That way, the two mortars will spawn exactly where the current two mortars are at
- The crewmembers will remain at their preset positions

(let me know if something doesn't make sense. I wrote this in a bit of a hurry)

Thanks, I appreciate it!

2) That would probably be an ability with the type 'always_on', as used for Forward Observers, Osttruppen accuracy bonuses and stuff like that. This ability would apply one or several modifiers while (and only as long as) a certain requirement is fulfilled - in this case, the unit must be garrisoned. Not a big deal at all!

A general note on garrisons: Basically, they are all the same - there are no different types as such. But every garrison has a number of pre-set combat slots at certain positions, which can also be zero. These determine if and where which units or team weapons can fire out, and sadly, they cannot be modified, as far as I know. My modifications to the trench are only possible because having a functional mortar inside was intended by Relic from the start.

1) is therefore not possible, because the trenches have only one slot for team weapons. It is possible to garrison two mortar squads (or any number of them), but only one mortar will ever be visible and able to fire.

3) is probably also impossible for the same reason.

Would it be possible to:
- Take the Mortar Pit building
- Assign the precise spots where units should appear (8 of them basically, since I have 2 mortars and max crewsize is 4 for each)
- That way, the two mortars will spawn exactly where the current two mortars are at
- The crewmembers will remain at their preset positions

Sadly, this is not possible either.

What would probably be doable is to have both mortars in the pit be inactive and uncrewed when you build it. If you garrison one mortar squad, one will be manned, if you garrison another, the other will be as well. HOWEVER, the two mortars in the pit will always use the model for the 3-inch, no matter which model the garrisoned mortar teams actually use. The crews in the pit are also pre-set and will not correspond to the actual garrisoned crew, I believe.

Another possibility I'm not quite sure about is a system that works like USF vehicles do: You build an abandoned mortar pit which can only be crewed by a mortar team. If crewed, the pit can be abandoned again at any time, ejecting the mortar squad. I'll have to look into this, though!
Edit: This suggestion cannot be implemented. It's not possible to add a requirement for the capturing squad, so every squad would be able to crew the abandoned pit. (Also, it would mean that mortar teams could crew anything else as well.)

Bah!

Thus.. creating garrisonable buildings is something that only Relic can do? My ears have picked up a longstanding demand for Relic to "release modding tools". Is this a piece of functionality that is currently missing due to the lack of tools?

Thanks, I appreciate it!
2) That would probably be an ability with the type 'always_on', as used for Forward Observers, Osttruppen accuracy bonuses and stuff like that. This ability would apply one or several modifiers while (and only as long as) a certain requirement is fulfilled - in this case, the unit must be garrisoned. Not a big deal at all!

I see. In this case (if I go with the one-mortar-per-Trench implementation), I would have to give the same conditional modifier for all mortars that can be constructed or captured by the Brits.

Thanks, I appreciate it!
Sadly, this is not possible either.

What would probably be doable is to have both mortars in the pit be inactive and uncrewed when you build it. If you garrison one mortar squad, one will be manned, if you garrison another, the other will be as well. HOWEVER, the two mortars in the pit will always use the model for the 3-inch, no matter which model the garrisoned mortar teams actually use. The crews in the pit are also pre-set and will not correspond to the actual garrisoned crew, I believe.

Another possibility I'm not quite sure about is a system that works like USF vehicles do: You build an abandoned mortar pit which can only be crewed by a mortar team. If crewed, the pit can be abandoned again at any time, ejecting the mortar squad. I'll have to look into this, though!

That's an interesting alternative implementation; make mortar pits kind of like USF vehicles. Each garrisoned mortar activates a mortar weapon on the pit.

If I go down this route, will it be possible to implement the following, though:
- Small arms/grenades should damage the garrisoned mortars directly (without having to destroy the pit entity first).

Actually, I just thought the following.

On release, the Mortar Pits (allong with all other emplacements) were garrisonable by MG teams. Could the MG weapon slots be interchangeable with Mortar weapon slots. Would that also make all garrisoned mortars able to fire on whichever direction ordered (without relocating)

Thus.. creating garrisonable buildings is something that only Relic can do? My ears have picked up a longstanding demand for Relic to "release modding tools". Is this a piece of functionality that is currently missing due to the lack of tools?

You can make anything a garrison, you just can't change if/where units can fire out. We can put 200 mortar teams into a Panzer IV, but none of them will be able to fire while in there. It is known in which files these combat slots are stored, but the values seem somewhat cryptic and it's not possible to replace these files with a mod, as far as I know.

I see. In this case (if I go with the one-mortar-per-Trench implementation), I would have to give the same conditional modifier for all mortars that can be constructed or captured by the Brits.

It's even easier: You create one passive ability ("mortar_garrison_bonus" or something like that) which increases a mortar's range/rate of fire/whatever while garrisoned and give that ability to every mortar. This is one of the most basic forms of modding in the game.

That's an interesting alternative implementation; make mortar pits kind of like USF vehicles. Each garrisoned mortar activates a mortar weapon on the pit.

If I go down this route, will it be possible to implement the following, though:
- Small arms/grenades should damage the garrisoned mortars directly (without having to destroy the pit entity first).

It seemed promising, but I don't think it's possible after all, because it looks like you can't put restrictions on recrewing: A mortar team would be able to crew anything, and any squad would be able to crew a mortar pit.

Garrisoning a building or halftrack and crewing a vehicle are two fundamentally different things. A unit that is garrisoned can fire (if the hold has combat slots) and be fired at (if set in the hold - this can be changed). When crewing a vehicle, however, a squad completely disappears and can not perform or be the target of any action at all until it abandons that vehicle. Even if the driver or pintle gunner uses the crew's model, it is not a 'unit' in any sense, just an animator attached to the vehicle.

My suggestion would look like this:

1. Brits as well as Ostheer and OKW (if only doctrinally) get the same trench. This trench is owned and cannot be garrisoned by other players. It will be somewhat more expensive than it is now, but also a little more durable.
2. Every mortar from every faction can garrison a trench owned by the player while retaining full functionality and receiving a moderate bonus to its rate of fire.
3. Brits get a mobile 3-inch mortar team in T2. It uses the model for the USF M1 81mm mortar and gets the stats from the Soviet PM-41.

This is both easy to implement and easy to use. It would make Brit play a lot different and leave the mortar pit model unused, but it seems like the most elegant and sensible solution to me. I would be willing to turn this, or a variation of it, into a mod, if you're interested.

Actually, I just thought the following.

On release, the Mortar Pits (allong with all other emplacements) were garrisonable by MG teams. Could the MG weapon slots be interchangeable with Mortar weapon slots. Would that also make all garrisoned mortars able to fire on whichever direction ordered (without relocating)

I didn't know that! I'll have to have a look - it is possible, but not certain.

The garrisoned mortars do show up correctly and can probably be made functional, but the 3-inch mortars can't be made invisible - there are animation states for that, but they don't seem to work.

This is both easy to implement and easy to use. It would make Brit play a lot different and leave the mortar pit model unused, but it seems like the most elegant and sensible solution to me. I would be willing to turn this, or a variation of it, into a mod, if you're interested.

I completely agree that a single-trench mortar would be a more elegant solution. However UKF has already slipped off that slope, and it will be difficult to get them back to that.

Also, the question I have to answer for me is the following: Why would anybody ever garrison 2 mortars on the same 2x2 plot of land (unless you want them to be wiped). This part, I will probably have to work out with proper, yet reasonable, buffs.

The garrisoned mortars do show up correctly and can probably be made functional, but the 3-inch mortars can't be made invisible - there are animation states for that, but they don't seem to work.

The visual results look already amazing; the garrisoned mortars show up exactly where they should.

Any further visual refinement options (i.e., removing the inactive mortar & stock crew) could/should be done by Relic.

1. Now, the question that remains to be answered is, could we make the mortar pit directly access the barrage/smoke/etc abilities of each mortar? (also considering that we can have two kinds of mortars garrisoned at the same time).

2. (preventing abuse) Assuming we can access the barrage ability of the mortar from within the pit, does this trigger a cooldown on all garrisoned mortars (so that we can't double barrage).

I completely agree that a single-trench mortar would be a more elegant solution. However UKF has already slipped off that slope, and it will be difficult to get them back to that.

Also, the question I have to answer for me is the following: Why would anybody ever garrison 2 mortars on the same 2x2 plot of land (unless you want them to be wiped). This part, I will probably have to work out with proper, yet reasonable, buffs.

If we remove Brace, Improved Fortifications and the like, literally the only thing the mortar pit has and the trench hasn't is the ability to hold two mortars. Building two mortars is often a questionable decision, putting them both into one garrison even more so. I don't know anything about game design, but keeping the mortar pit just for the sake of not making any drastic changes doesn't seem like a good idea to me. (That doesn't mean I'm not willing to help you, though.)

1. Now, the question that remains to be answered is, could we make the mortar pit directly access the barrage/smoke/etc abilities of each mortar? (also considering that we can have two kinds of mortars garrisoned at the same time).

It is possible with one mortar, and it should be possible with two. At the very least, you would be able to click on each mortar's symbol and then access their abilities individually.

2. (preventing abuse) Assuming we can access the barrage ability of the mortar from within the pit, does this trigger a cooldown on all garrisoned mortars (so that we can't double barrage).

It is possible to share ability cooldowns between units, but only globally. That means if you fire a barrage with any mortar, all of your mortars will have to wait for it to recharge, no matter if they're in the same garrison or not. It is possible to do that for explosive/smoke/special barrages separately, though.

Removing the crew should be possible, I just forgot to do it. I'll see what else I can do!

Thanks for all the hard work!

If we remove Brace, Improved Fortifications and the like, literally the only thing the mortar pit has and the trench hasn't is the ability to hold two mortars. Building two mortars is often a questionable decision, putting them both into one garrison even more so. I don't know anything about game design, but keeping the mortar pit just for the sake of not making any drastic changes doesn't seem like a good idea to me. (That doesn't mean I'm not willing to help you, though.)

Let's see where that leads! The way I'm thinking of making mortar pits enticing (but not OP) is to make them give good defensive buffs, decent offensive buffs, BUT make them a bit pricey (so that you can't spam them everywhere). I would envision that a mortar pit would cost around 120MP.

Defensive buffs

Currently, if I really wanted to spam mortars is I would build some green cover all over the place (-50% received AoE damage; received accuracy doesn't matter), stick my mortars behind it and fire away. Green cover is free, and it already gives a massive boost to survivability, at the cost of clumping your models up.

I think it is fair that the mortar pit should yield even better defensive capabilities than green cover.
- One option is to create/reuse a cover type, and modify every single weapon in the game to adjust the penalty
- However, (since we are lazy), is it possible to make the mortar pit apply the green cover bonus to the garrisoned mortars twice?

I dont think that double heavy cover would be too OP, given you can already build green cover and keep your mortars spread.

Offensive buffs

Give mortar pits some passive buffs:
-20% reload time (should be significant, but not turbo-mortar-like)
+5% range (so that you can always hit back attacking mortars; but none of the insane +43% range of the current mortar pit)
-20% cooldown on abilities (the amount is arbitrary. However, the cooldown is significant, as most mortars have longer barrage range than auto-attack range).

Pricing

Let's put it at 120MP

Given the offensive buffs, I would say that the effectiveness of each garrisoned mortar increases by 25%. With two mortars garrisoned you get 50% of a mortar for free. That's 50% of the price of a mortar (240MP). Thus, 120MP should be a good bargain if you plan on blobbing your mortars like that.

It is possible with one mortar, and it should be possible with two. At the very least, you would be able to click on each mortar's symbol and then access their abilities individually.

It is possible to share ability cooldowns between units, but only globally. That means if you fire a barrage with any mortar, all of your mortars will have to wait for it to recharge, no matter if they're in the same garrison or not. It is possible to do that for explosive/smoke/special barrages separately, though.

Removing the crew should be possible, I just forgot to do it. I'll see what else I can do!

Do you think it might get messy if each mortar has different cooldown durations? (e.g., different mortar, vet bonuses, etc). If it is possible to select each mortar individually and barrage that's already awesome.

The mortar pit could -ideally- give convenience abilities to access these abilities quicker (e.g., if you want a coordinated barrage).

Once again, thanks for everything!

Defensive buffs

Currently, if I really wanted to spam mortars is I would build some green cover all over the place (-50% received AoE damage; received accuracy doesn't matter), stick my mortars behind it and fire away. Green cover is free, and it already gives a massive boost to survivability, at the cost of clumping your models up.

I think it is fair that the mortar pit should yield even better defensive capabilities than green cover.
- One option is to create/reuse a cover type, and modify every single weapon in the game to adjust the penalty
- However, (since we are lazy), is it possible to make the mortar pit apply the green cover bonus to the garrisoned mortars twice?

I dont think that double heavy cover would be too OP, given you can already build green cover and keep your mortars spread.

Normally, the mortar pit gives garrison cover, which is worse than heavy cover. I would recommend keeping it this way and applying an additional received damage modifier to garrisoned units - that would probably be easiest.

Offensive buffs

Give mortar pits some passive buffs:
-20% reload time (should be significant, but not turbo-mortar-like)
+5% range (so that you can always hit back attacking mortars; but none of the insane +43% range of the current mortar pit)
-20% cooldown on abilities (the amount is arbitrary. However, the cooldown is significant, as most mortars have longer barrage range than auto-attack range).

This is easy to do (and easy to adjust), so it shouldn't be a problem at all.

Pricing

Let's put it at 120MP

Given the offensive buffs, I would say that the effectiveness of each garrisoned mortar increases by 25%. With two mortars garrisoned you get 50% of a mortar for free. That's 50% of the price of a mortar (240MP). Thus, 120MP should be a good bargain if you plan on blobbing your mortars like that.

That sounds reasonable - it costs 120MP now.

Do you think it might get messy if each mortar has different cooldown durations? (e.g., different mortar, vet bonuses, etc). If it is possible to select each mortar individually and barrage that's already awesome.

The mortar pit could -ideally- give convenience abilities to access these abilities quicker (e.g., if you want a coordinated barrage).

It could get messy. But to be honest, I don't think it's necessary anyway. Not being able to barrage with both mortars at the same time would - for me - be a reason not to use the mortar pit in the first place. If you invest 240+240+120=600MP, you should be allowed to use double barrages.

You mean abilities that cause all garrisoned mortars, regardless of which model they use, to fire a certain barrage type? I'm not completely sure, but I don't think that's possible. If you have two mortars of the same type, it already works like that, though.

I have a prototype ready that includes the following:

- British 3-inch mortar team in T2. 240MP, stats and abilities from the Soviet PM-41, uses the USF M1 model.
- Garrisonable mortar pit for 120MP. Has no visible 3-inch mortars or crewmen and can take two mortar teams which show and work correctly.
- GrW 34, PM-41 and 3-inch can use all of their abilities while garrisoned.
- No stat changes to the pit or mortars yet.

Add me on Steam, and I'll give you access!

Normally, the mortar pit gives garrison cover, which is worse than heavy cover. I would recommend keeping it this way and applying an additional received damage modifier to garrisoned units - that would probably be easiest.

Agreed.

I just had a look over the cover types, and the damage modifiers of the usual suspects to target a mortar pit (Stukas, mortars, etc). I think that giving it Trench cover is ideal (it's basically garrison cover times two) -- except for a bug with the GrW34 which seems to completely ignore Trench cover.

It could get messy. But to be honest, I don't think it's necessary anyway. Not being able to barrage with both mortars at the same time would - for me - be a reason not to use the mortar pit in the first place. If you invest 240+240+120=600MP, you should be allowed to use double barrages.

You mean abilities that cause all garrisoned mortars, regardless of which model they use, to fire a certain barrage type? I'm not completely sure, but I don't think that's possible. If you have two mortars of the same type, it already works like that, though.

That's what I had in mind; being able to access both mortars' abilities directly from the mortar pit (without having to spam tab). If it works fine right-off-the-bat for two-of-the-same mortars, it's already great!

I have a prototype ready that includes the following:

- British 3-inch mortar team in T2. 240MP, stats and abilities from the Soviet PM-41, uses the USF M1 model.
- Garrisonable mortar pit for 120MP. Has no visible 3-inch mortars or crewmen and can take two mortar teams which show and work correctly.
- GrW 34, PM-41 and 3-inch can use all of their abilities while garrisoned.
- No stat changes to the pit or mortars yet.

Add me on Steam, and I'll give you access!

Let's do this tomorrow; I have to hit the sack soon!

The easiest way I can think of would indeed be using another mortar model - the US M1 81mm is probably the best choice - and restoring the mortar-related functionality that trenches once had. (I did that for my commander mod, it's not much work.) But that's not quite what you had in mind, is it?

What did you change to re-enable mortars in trenchs?

I added them to the hold_ext and they load fine but don't shoot.

Trying to find whatevers stopping them but its driving me batty.

For each mortar, you will have to edit most of its weapons. In 'behaviour', 'attack_ground_type' needs to be set to 'anywhere'. It's usually set to 'outside_hold_only', and that seems to make barrage and auto-attack impossible as well.

Thats got it. Thanks