Bofors

I have yet to be provided with a solution that can consistently beat a bofors and the only time I can beat it is when the british player doesn't set up shop w/ mortar pit and at guns and only then can I consistently beat it with OKW.

I have literally tried every suggestion on this forum and nothing works well. The bofors does not have a counter (edit) that the british play can't easily adjust to.

This is the key. What are you doing while he is setting all those things. There's a difference on playstyle between how you should be fighting if no emplacements (how much units, fast tech, cancer commander on load out) and after emplacements. Neither is unbeatable (specially if you know what to veto).

This is the key. What are you doing while he is setting all those things. There's a difference on playstyle between how you should be fighting if no emplacements (how much units, fast tech, cancer commander on load out) and after emplacements. Neither is unbeatable (specially if you know what to veto).

The situation varies drastically from game to game. It sometimes takes the form of an early mg take a key house and holding it. Then it’s a Bofors at 6 min, then it’s mortars and AT. Then after bleeding you for 5 minutes their army is larger than yours. Sometimes the game goes until 7-10 minutes and I have most of the map and both fuels, then they take hold of a fuel point and immediately set up a Bofors followed by a mortar pit and AT gun. Sometimes it 2-3 mortars and anything that get close to it gets annihilated. Most of the time they just creep the SimCity from the first fuel and VP they lock down to the next VP. Then the mortars get vet 2 because sitting next to a Bofors guarantees longevity and the range is significantly increased.

All I know. Is most of the time, unless I’m playing OKW using a very specific strategy, once the Bofors goes up I’m 90% likely to lose the game. In 2v2 random it’s practically impossible to beat SimCity as OH without medium/heavy tanks and if they got it up quickly enough I’m bleeding manpower until it’s gone. You can’t exactly ignore it, either. I’m not the only person with this issue and it’s incredible frustrating, especially with the frequency in which I see this.

This game is supposed to be a dynamic RTS, not a tower defense game.

All I ask is that the Bofors has a minimum range, like 10. Keep its power level at what it is now. It would allow for rushes with a large variety of success across all types of units, and it’s still hard to deal with if it’s properly supported. In essence, the Bofors should be supporting the line not being what holds the line.

The admission that the presence of emplacements has a drastic effect on your playstyle, is admitting to the issue of their power level. I’ve been around long enough to know that the “You can just flank 3 Jacksons to the tiger’s rear armour” or “just keep them off the fuel to delay the tiger” weren’t valid arguments from the axis side and there was obviously a huge issue with the Tiger’s power level then. Before the Tiger was nerfed there was no reason not to get one, there is currently no reason not to get a Bofors with how successful it is implemented. It seems pretty clear that most axis players agree with me that the Bofors is a bit of an issue and most allied players seem to think it’s fine.

Edit:
I acknowledge that this may not be as prevalent in the higher ranks.

Edit:
I also acknoledge that the Brits generally need some more love.

Either increase bofors cost to 280 manpower 50 fuel or remove the barrage ability. fixed. No static unit that reliably damages (and in some instances insta-wipes) everything lower than upper-tier mediums should be able to counter its hard counters (anti tank guns, mortars). This is mainly an ostheer problem not an OKW problem.

Give axis advanced chemotherapy commander.

That's fine as long as 2 pak hits kill a Bofors.

Then I require 3 ZiS shots to kill a Flak HQ.

Then I require 3 ZiS shots to kill a Flak HQ.

As already stated, Flak HQ can't barrage your at guns and kill the crew. It is also a lot more expensive and needed to build tanks.

Here's DevM beating Jove (advanced emplacements). May help with strategy although I don't think Jove was planning to use this doctrine.

Has anyone seen this cast that tightrope did? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ_axxkC0IY

Basically shows that one can have no micro and be a relatively crap player and nearly beat a top player using emplacements. Give it a watch and then try to make an argument that emplacements don't need a nerf.

I'm not a pro but...

The Ost BO was wrong against UKF. Mg > gren > gren > mg counters units that try to assault you like riflenmen and conscripts, not units like the early UKF ones that work statically at long range. This is unless you can rush beyond the midfield of the map, take buildings and backcap to take advantage of no UKF early & mobile mortar, but the Ost player evidently had no plan to take that risk. He should have gone for the anti-UKF BO which is gren > mortar and force an early engagement while your 3rd unit that he doesn't have (pios) cap, then an mg if/when you get a good position for it and/or more grens and another mortar, then get T2 for a halftrack. Against UKF, you simply need to adjust your strategy with Ost. I'm not going to comment on more than the first few minutes of the game, since the Ost player did nothing of what he was supposed to during this time.

When you have two mortars and a halftrack you force him on the offensive because a mortar pit, or whatever else he has, can't beat that by sitting back. He will lose, and that is the key - you are forcing him into a bad situation to avert that loss. But he can't win an engagement against your halftrack without an AEC, which can't chase it down because of fausts (similar to how it can't chase down a luchs against OKW due to the presence of volk schreks) and the risk of mines by a smart player, and making an AEC means he has both reduced AI power compared to what else he could've got and no bofors. Prioritise capping munitions over fuel because that will be much more useful early-mid against UKF where they are at their most vulnerable to you, and there is no way he can get a cromwell out fast enough to have a chance against a well-executed Ost strategy that prioritises munitions.

If you don't mind departing from whatever other doctrines you like, then I would suggest Osttruppen doctrine against UKF. This because the instant spawn and reduced cost makes you able to take position on the map and keep the offensive pressure right away and deploy more other units faster, which is good because you don't need your generalist infantry to be the killers against UKF in the first place but merely to guard your support units and prevent him from taking the positions he needs. The doctrine has supply drop to give munitions for mines, fausts, and whatever else you'd like such as a panzergren schrek + flammen upgrade combo for the HT you already wanted.

That should cover it.

...

I'll start saying that the only change the current Bofor needs, is a barrage range reduction. Anything from 80 to 60/75 would do it. Cause this will make OH mortar "immune" to it's barrage.

I also think that emplacements in general, besides pounder, should require more input from the player. Once you know where and when to build them, there's practically no difference between a rank 10 or rank 1000 player.
Fixing the 2nd mortar from the pit but reducing auto attack to 100 (equal to 120mm and Leig) but leaving barrage range at 115 (as now) would be a good middle ground. IDEALLY we could also see light shells back (reduce damage but increase range).


Having said that, what i'm saying is that you approach the problem from the wrong way.

-First of all, it's the random issue. If you don't plan on carrying and trying to coordinate with your random teammate (remember that you are a random as well for him) your chances of winning are doom despite what type of opponent you are facing. When playing randoms despite of game, you are guaranteed losses which you can't do anything about it.

-You purposely focus on the long game, when that is an alternative, not the only way of playing as axis. You say you can't beat it as OH without tanks, but what about the early game? Osstruppen, sniper, 222, FHT.

Focus on what you can improve and do, rather than think that doing the same thing would work against all type of strats and opponents.

I don't think it needs any changes if it gets a minimum range. Give it a minimum range of 10 and keep it the way it is.

I use 222 all the time. I also lose them all the time because once the stumble onto the bofors, it's dead just like any other "below medium tank" unit.

As OKW it's not an issue. Between ISG, panzerwerfer, doctrinal arty, medium tank and heavy tanks I have a decent set of tools to deal with it. I feel like if I want a chance to win, I have to play OKW.

2v2 AT and 2v2 random are my preferred games.

I've played 50 hours since this thread was opened trying every suggestion given to OH with very poor results. Last few games I tried superhets suggestions. I found that using the halftrack to reinforce your mortars just accelerated the rate that the mortar pit gained vet 2 and bled MP out like a stuck pig.

I know there are a bunch of issues with balance in every faction. Both axis and allies have super cheap cheesy ways to gain an advantage. A lot of people don't like strums, the panzerschrecks, ass grens or the 50kg bomb and I can understand that. I don't like Su mines/demos, US gernades or Cromwell/Comet spam. You can play around those things, you can't contest an area taken by a Bofors with the tools that OH has available befors medium tanks. And the dismissive position that it's my fault for not controlling the 5 minutes leading up to Bofors set up, isn't a valid argument. I understand it's my fault that I haven't been able to cap him back to his base. But what am I supposed to do when the brits 2v1 blob a fuel point, push a retreat at minute 6 then set up a Bofors before another unit could get there?

just watched siberian play a brit in a 1v1. brit built 2 bofors and a morter pit.

no eplacments went down the entire game.

Nerf the bofors for balance sake

jesus

just watched siberian play a brit in a 1v1. brit built 2 bofors and a morter pit.

no eplacments went down the entire game.

Nerf the bofors for balance sake

jesus

Replay or link?

Gladly

https://www.coh2.org/replay/52862/bofors-wtf-vs-siberian

Has anyone seen this cast that tightrope did? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ_axxkC0IY

Basically shows that one can have no micro and be a relatively crap player and nearly beat a top player using emplacements. Give it a watch and then try to make an argument that emplacements don't need a nerf.

of course a bofors looks OP when your opponent tries to counter it with double MG42 and 222..

Protip: use something vs brits called a sniper and just avoid the bofors until PIV (and even then you have mortar HT/LEFH)

OKW have no skill hardcounter to bofors in the LEIG

of course a bofors looks OP when your opponent tries to counter it with double MG42 and 222..

Protip: use something vs brits called a sniper and just avoid the bofors until PIV (and even then you have mortar HT/LEFH)

OKW have no skill hardcounter to bofors in the LEIG

ISG works only if you can outrange the Mortar pit next to it. Once the Mortar pit hits vet 2, ISG no longer work.

ISG works only if you can outrange the Mortar pit next to it. Once the Mortar pit hits vet 2, ISG no longer work.

says who, leig works fine for me

Send in the flame nades for the bofors once he braces, take out the pit next doors with a few shreks and he's down 720mp+fuel

Stuka works great to insta wipe his support, pick command panther when he switches to crom spam so no need for T4

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says who, leig works fine for me

Send in the flame nades for the bofors once he braces, take out the pit next doors with a few shreks and he's down 720mp+fuel

Stuka works great to insta wipe his support, pick command panther when he switches to crom spam so no need for T4

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Leig or the ISG? Once mortar pit starts hitting my ISGs I can't make it work because I'll bleed mp into their Vet 2. I have found the most positive results to be stug, p4, Panzerwerfer, close the pocket, Heavy artillery, and just any kind of flame IF i can get it in there.

As OKW, the Stuka zu Fuß w/ 3 5% faster abilities, spec op doc for the flares and a wall racketen is the most consistent solution. Even if I'm not killing the Bofors, I can put some serious bleed on the guys that repair or anything else nearby. The Flare/SZF combo is awesome, probably broken as well. The SZF will vet super fast and if you can get vet 4 there is no chance they can stay on the map with the incinerary bombardment.

I am really looking forward to trying out the sniper idea. Makes a lot of sense. Bleed out their expensive models. Double or single sniper?

Putting a bofors/mortar pit on the field will always do more damage than they cost, it is also very disruptive to your opponents play style. Guys that I've played that lean on it (like 2-4 Bofors and 2-4 Mortars) immediately lose once they are removed from the map. But land matress/Bofors combo and the Bofors into cromwell spam is still hard to deal with.

I tried playing British to get a handle on the situation better. The faction design is kinda messed up, so I can understand why a lot of people that play around my level use this tactic.

I don't think the Bofors is a problem on 1v1. I've never had a problem with it on 1v1. It's 2v2 that I find it to be a huge problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH8SeivyCdQ

Here's the DevM vs Jove link.

of course a bofors looks OP when your opponent tries to counter it with double MG42 and 222..

Protip: use something vs brits called a sniper and just avoid the bofors until PIV (and even then you have mortar HT/LEFH)

OKW have no skill hardcounter to bofors in the LEIG

Protip? So like the top 50 player playing against the emplacements wasn't doing it right but your super sniper skills would have destroyed that un-decrewable bofors and mortar? So like, an AT gun can fire through emplacements isn't weird/op?

Jesus dude, when two of the top casters (one of them official ESL) are saying it's a strat that yields high win ration for low skill and low micro, something has to be changed.

I'm fine with the Bofors as it is cause I can typically handle it but a lot of people aren't and there's good reason for that.

And the mortar pit can outrange your 'no-skill' OKW LeiG.

just leave alone my sweet bofors !