'Radical' gameplay changes could turn into a massive failure

CoH2 as a strategy game has a whole lot of room for improvement.

I know, agreed.

Minor balance tweaks and stat changes aren't going to make the game any better or attract any new players. Major design changes are the best way to keep a game fresh and attract new attention.

Minor adjustments yeah. But extreme buffs and nerfs, illogical and unnecessary gameplay overhauls could potentially alienate a significant part of the playerbase.

'radical' golden turnips et al

Rubbish biased poll, biased OP, gtfo.

gtfo.

Keep it civil or stfu

Congrats OP ya proven that people overwhelming support the new patch

Buffs and changes which don't make any sense when taking the said units role into perspective:


- Penals: They are arifle based inf. The SU rifle inf are not very accurate. Penals exist to fill that void. They are already strong at close range, decent at mid but awful at long range. Increasing their long range accuracy, or making them more durable, giving them LMGs all would have been much better steps towards improving them. But PPSH?! We have shocks, Parties, and cons for that.


- Volks: Another rifle based inf, having a decent long range accuracy and are supposed to be a mere capping unit with highly useful abilities. Think of them as ostruppen with more utilities. Giving volks STGs will kill the enthusiasm to use sturmpios to their maximum effectiveness. STG obers are already meh and they will be totally forgotten.

- Arty: There are some buffs for arty units/abilities which were not needed at all. There are huge issues with arty being fully dominant in 2v2+ game modes. We certaintly don't need to amplify those issues.

- Minimization or actually removal of RNG:The most prevalent and eenjoyable factor in CoH2. Having a full health, A-Moved volks wiped by a TM35 created a funny experience, and a teaching one for the guy who lost his unit. Rng creates an uncertanity atmosphere in game which I think is greate and adds to the strategic depth. Removing it or minimizing it will take away one of the best characteristics of CoH2.

I don't get your thought process at all here.

Penals - Fair point here, LMG upgrade would be a possible alternative but the assault package makes much more sense since they already have the flamethrower, which wouldn't mesh well with LMG. Overlap isn't much of an issue at all since Cons PPSH, Partitions, and Shocks are all doctrinal - it gives you more commander flexibility to have a non-doc CQC unit.

Volks - The Ostruppen comparison went out the window after the OKW re-design buffed them closer to Grens. Not to mention that Strumpios are still vastly superior for CQC and don't require an Upgrade, they won't disappear. The STG package is just a compensation for losing the Shrek - and a good one at that since they struggle with vetted/upgraded Rifles and Tommies. If you have a better idea feel free to suggest it.

Arty- All of the Arty buffs are needed - Scott, Major Arty, Tommy Flares, Etc. are all extremely underused and pretty much universally agreed upon to be UP. USF in particular needs help because it severally lacks non-doc options to deal with turtlely opponents. There is a reason why Calliope is very popular - it fills that need. These changes aren't drastic enough to turn team games into Arty fests any more than they currently are.

RNG - There is a difference between teaching moments and computer monitor punching induced rage from random squad wipes. Mines that kill wounded models and suppress still greatly punish you and teach you to build sweepers - losing entire full-health squads randomly isn't fun and good for gameplay, period.

+1

Shit poll

Coh2 is fine with this mod. Maybe one less PPsH for penals.

+1

I would vote for "Nearly all changes are a step into the right direction, so give it some time and a thumbs up". The op stated in the comments that it is unrealistic that people could have this opinion so he decides with "insight" for us. Thank you and please understand that I'll abstain to vote, because this poll is way to one-sided

Penals - since they already have the flamethrower, which wouldn't mesh well with LMG.

The flamer is not a CQC per se, it counters green cover use and could serves as a deterrent for charging units like SPs or PGrens while the LMG rekts them at long range. Even a buffed SVT would have been a better choice

Volks - The Ostruppen comparison went out the window after the OKW re-design buffed them closer to Grens. Not to mention that Strumpios are still vastly superior for CQC and don't require an Upgrade, they won't disappear. The STG package is just a compensation for losing the Shrek - and a good one at that since they struggle with vetted/upgraded Rifles and Tommies. If you have a better idea feel free to suggest it.

Which was not a great change to begin with, the increased DPS I mean. Their original concept was some place holder AT unit intended to hold against light vehicles. SP are superior yes but there is not much point building a second one. And new volks wil struggle even more against Tommies/RM since they lost their only advantage, long range efficiency. And 2 STGs don't mean shit for that role. My idea is returning them to their original concept, something between cons and ostruppen.

Arty- All of the Arty buffs are needed - Scott, Major Arty, Tommy Flares, Etc.

Neither of them are needed now, the "omnipotent, all powerful" volk blob is dead.

RNG - There is a difference between teaching moments and computer monitor punching induced rage from random squad wipes.

That is a problem with the player for taking the game so seriously. I have tested the TM35 in game and it takes 2 models at max. I mean what the hell.

That is a problem with the player for taking the game so seriously. I have tested the TM35 in game and it takes 2 models at max. I mean what the hell.

If you've never seen a single general-purpose mine one-shot a squad, you just haven't played enough.

How isn't a flamethrower CQC? You literally have to be close to use it lol And if you read the release notes then you would know that SVT was buffed •"SVT accuracy to .7/.65/.45
• SVT damage from 8 to 10."

Penals are really good in the mod, some would argue borderline OP.

Likewise Miragefla has said several times over that the STG Package doesn't nerf far range DPS. I don't know why you want the old shitty Volks back all they were good for was getting rolled over in the early game until they became Shrek platforms (which the community hates). If you take away the Shrek a DPS nerf is even more silly. If you played the mod you would know that 2 STGs provides a notable boost to mid-close DPS without being overpowering. A second Strumpioneer squad still gives you 4 STGs and all the utility of an engineer squad... nothing changes.

You don't need Arty for a Volks blob... you need Arty for Wher players with a shit-ton of support weapons, HMG bunkers, or OKW players with truck Sim-Citys surrounded by ISGs. Anybody who has tried to break that using only Scotts in their current state and Pak Howies knows how futile it can be at times. Throw in an Elephant or Jadgtiger? Good luck.

And what Vuther said... mines at choke points will very often wipe squads. Not to mention the dire need to fix doorway mining cheese.

^ I've had my vet units instagibbed by the Pack or the Pit, Tm35 rarely does that.


Regarding penals I was talking from what I've experienced when testing the mod, they performance is subpar for that cost.


Volks shouldn't replace elite inf or shouldn't be something in between either.


Support teams are what keep OST alive.

I don't get your thought process at all here.

To understand potato you need to become potato

He pidgeonholed himself and went on to believe units role should never be changed, even when it most certainly does not fulfill that role or breaks the game/faction.

To understand potato you need to become potato

He pidgeonholed himself and went on to believe units role should never be changed, even when it most certainly does not fulfill that role or breaks the game/faction.

Can you calm down please.


There is no reason to give volks an AI role, as it is filled by SP, PFussies, Obers, Falls.

Just because potato doesn't understand something, doesn't mean it makes no sense

Just become potato doesn't understand something, doesn't mean it makes no sense

"Just become"


You just rushed a response as usual and made up that error.

Where's the "yes, all of them do" option?

Where's the 'this is trollbait thread' option?

Your defense of 1 shot mines is hilarious. Relying on the rather insignificant and inevitable "mistake" of hitting a mine to keep you in the game is pathetic. The only people that like that mechanic are the people that struggle to win when the other guy doesn't have entire units going poof.

^ I've had my vet units instagibbed by the Pack or the Pit, Tm35 rarely does that.


Volks shouldn't replace elite inf or shouldn't be something in between either.


Support teams are what keep OST alive.

Random mine squad wipes is bad for balance and bad for gameplay experience even if it were rare. (it's obviously common enough to warrant its inclusion in preview mod)

If Shreks are removed than Volks have an AI role by default. Aside from your notion of what Volks "should" be you haven't provided any good reasons otherwise aside from "back in the day Volks were like this". Newsflash, OKW has changed a lot since launch and many of those changes were made for glaringly obvious balance reasons like OKW having a weak early game.

So because OST relies on support weapons then USF can't have reliable counters to those weapons? That makes perfect sense, I look forward to future COH2 patches where every game is a MG42/PAK wall screened by pseudo Ostruppen Volks that get obliterated by Rifles and Tommies. Sounds hella fun.

Keep it civil or stfu

How about your make this poll a proper poll without options like 1) No, 2) Absolutely No, then you talk about shutting people up.

Aside from the poorly executed poll, and the veritable bm troll thread this is looking to become, I think a few of the points OP made were fine, except the RNG aspect. RNG is a dangerous entity to implement. On one hand, it can make for exciting and awe inspiring moments and turn games on a knife's edge. On the other hand, it can overtly punish a players slight mistakes or punish them through little or no intention of the opposing player. Too much, and you get more punishment and frustration than cool moments and too little and nothing really happens or is affected in a exciting way. In terms of just strategy or competitiveness, RNG CAN be accounted for, but only to a degree. You can only play with so much insurance before you just lose due to not actually accomplishing anything or building too much or whatever the instance may be.Either way, RNG has become an integral part of the game and partly contributes to it's appeal. RNG should be something that can punish players but in a 'foreseeable' way and should teach a lesson that can be avoided in the future, not just something that happens and screws you because lul rngesus hates you (although that can't 100% be removed, but it can be minimized)