Goliath

Hey guys, so recently I have been playing lots of OKW in 1v1s, and using the Goliath commander. I am mainly using the commander because of it's recon abilities and the "for the fatherland" defensive buff to supplement my flack-halftrack build, but I have also been trying to use the goliath, and I have some issues with the way it is implemented.

Currently, it acts like a camoed unit that can blow itself up, but has several quirks that make it very situational.

1) Because it is a unit, it is automatically decloacked when an enemy infantry squad walks up to range 10 of it. This makes it very hard to ambush squads, because most of the time the enemy can see you before you can really kill them effectively.

2) The Goliath deals less damage (and over a smaller area) when it is "killed" by enemy fire. This, combined with issue #1, makes it easy for enemies to just move around, spot your goliath, and kill it immediately without even having to give an order to attack it.

However, issues 1 and 2 could be considered part of the units design, that it is meant to close onto enemy squads instead of waiting for them to walk onto it, except...

3) The Goliath has a terrible rotation speed and acceleration. This makes it very sluggish to control, and implies that it is meant to be moved into position and wait for enemies to step on it. However, issues 1 and 2 contradict this.

As a result, the Goliath has 3 uses.

-Flanking the enemy and waiting to wipe retreating squads or support weapons that are engaging another unit nearby (even support weapon crew members can reliably kill it if you move straight at them).

-Using LOS blockers to ambush enemies around corners. This requires very close watching of the Goliath, and only applicable on certain maps.

-Sitting on a building, watching it to make sure an enemy doesn't get in, spot it because of its close proximity, and immediately get out.

In conclusion, I think the Goliath is absolutely not performing the role it should be performing. At 100 munitions, it is 10 more munitions than the demo charge, which performs a very similar role, in a better way. A demo charge can only be spotted by sweepers.

Even if this will require a slight increase in the price of the Goliath (which I do not think is really necessary) or a removal of its ability to self spot (which would make sense given the rest of its doctrine's focus on recon), I believe that the Goliath should gain the same cloaking mechanism as mines do when stationary, either as a toggle-able ability or just passively when it is stationary in cover. This will make sweeping a necessity to counter Goliaths, and make Goliaths closer in role to their allied equivalent, demos. It will then become a demo charge on wheels, which rather than needing an engineer to build, propels itself to its target.

I would be willing to see changes made to goliath, if it loses self spotting and has 0 sight range.
It already gets to be built without an engineer present and can be moved anywhere on the map.

Goliath is a hunk of junk. Pretty much historically accurate in that case. Playing with that commander is like throwing away 100 munitions at a time. Maybe 1 in 10 will be worth it vs 9 out of 10 demo charges for cheaper and non doctrinal. The worst thing about it is the pathing on it. Totally does not serve its purpose.

I say make it tad cheaper and that make up for it

Just make it cheaper. It it was actually a decent unit people would start losing their shit over the commander being P2W (and they wouldn't be 100% wrong).

All commanders should bed situational. Although Goliath is over priced.

^ Exactly cheaper is the answer!

It requires lutsav micro and planning, that's what I love about it and any kind of wipes is extremely rewarding. Overpriced? Yes. Awful mobility? Yes. Should stay the way it is? Again, YES.

Cheaper won't fix it. Demos still work and are non doctrinal. Cheaper crappy goliath would just be an acknowledgement that the doctrine itself is weak. Cheap wouldn't make people use them more either. Picking that doctrine, you give up a handful of better doctrines. And even if you made them 50 munitions, it would still be a waste of 450 munitions for every 500 spent.
Price is always the solution suggested for axis stuff, but with allied stuff solution is always to make stronger.

Cheaper won't fix it. Demos still work and are non doctrinal. Cheaper crappy goliath would just be an acknowledgement that the doctrine itself is weak. Cheap wouldn't make people use them more either. Picking that doctrine, you give up a handful of better doctrines. And even if you made them 50 munitions, it would still be a waste of 450 munitions for every 500 spent.
Price is always the solution suggested for axis stuff, but with allied stuff solution is always to make stronger.

Except OKW doesn't have access to demo charges. Besides, a price reduction and perhaps a slight increase to acceleration is the way to go, or a great start at the very least.

Except OKW doesn't have access to demo charges. Besides, a price reduction and perhaps a slight increase to acceleration is the way to go, or a great start at the very least.

That's my point. Demos work on the opposite side so making goliath cheaper without making it useful is not gonna be great since it is the centre piece of a doctrine, whereas demos are non doc for soviets at least and doctrinal for other allies.