Guards are underpowered

Thanks.
What does this imply exactly?

The health of the conscript individual transfers onto the health of a Guards squad.

Ex.
If there is a single conscript model who took damage, merging into a Guard unit, the conscript's damage also affects the Guards. So in other words, the health bar takes into account of the conscript's damage and adds it with the Guard unit.

Use them with penals and cons. Merge the cons.
Don't spam them and expect them to do much

I doubt y know what you say. I remember reading cruzz post when he stated that merging increases squads recieved accuracy a lot. His conclusion was never merge infantry.

Guards are OK... but only if we comapre them with other soviet infantry dudes. Conscripts are so bad, that even Osstrupens looks like gods, cos they have that accuracy buff at least. That what makes Guards for some people look like they are normal.

But if we gonna compare Guards with other "elite" troops of other factions... things going really bad. And Guards are suppoused to be Elite, actually. But they are mostly same conscripts, but only with weapons.

My last idea about Gurads was "to put them in T1 instead of Penals". But now Penals going to be overbuffed, so I don't even know... Maybe put them in T0 but unlockable after T3?

Cos, you know... they looks pretty much like stock units. If storms are more or less enough powerfull to sit in doctrines, then... Guards are just little buffed and normally armed version of conscripts.

And yea continue that point - NON-DOC PTRS FOR CONS!!! We need it, really!

Anyone else sees them as useless and a total waste of both mu and mp?

They come in late at 2CP.
They cost a lot to reinforce, but their armor is barely higher than conscripts.
Their DPS is the same as a regular grenadier squad, are you serious?
They are useless shit until you upgrade them with a 75mu lmg.
Their button is useless too, costing 40 mu on top of needing the lmg upgrade ?????
Their grenade costs 45mu but does near no damage, and no damage at all in buildings.

They aren't strong enough to kill a luchs alone and they cost 330mp ?
They can barely kill a 222 now.

You want penals to have some use, but what about guards infantry?

Even conscripts with ptrs is a better use of mp/mu.

You probably got owned in a game spamming guards didn't you

I doubt y know what you say. I remember reading cruzz post when he stated that merging increases squads recieved accuracy a lot. His conclusion was never merge infantry.

What would you rather have, a guard squad retreating out of the fight or hanging around?


Cons are for emergency merge.

He is what happens when you merge cons:

-The models of the conscript squad join the guard squad. If these models were damaged, that damage carries over

-These models drop their wepons (into the nether) and equip the Honor Guard mosins (I forget the exact name, I think that's what they are in the editor) as well as DP mg's and PTRS rifles. Both of these are the exact same stats as the guards.

Vet: Vet is applied BY MODEL (to my understanding) so that a conscript that joins a vet3 guard squad will be a vet 3 conscript. They do not get the Guard model bonuses

Rec acc: A conscript is still a conscript. It will take 1.08 or whatever their current recieved acc is. This makes the squad, entirely made up of conscripts, extremely fragile.

I might be using out of date data but :

Guards Rec-acc :1.0
Con Rec acc : 1.087

At Vet 2 (This is where it's most noticeable)
Guards : .83
Cons : 1.087

At vet 3 (For example)
Guards: .6
Cons : .625 (ish)



Cruzz likely said merging is inefficient, yes. It IS inefficient if you replace 3/4 of your guards with cons and continue to use them as face-tanks. The way it works is that models with a higher recieved acc (noticably higher in the case of cons) are going to die soooo much faster than guards that you will usually just be replacing the conscripts that died until you can get them a proper reinforcement right up until vet 3, when they become relatively efficient again.

Since Guards (ideally) sit in the back they aren't as affected as things like penals which tend to get murdered in their "assault" role. If you are attempting to use them in a "front line" role then yeah they're going to suck.


Merge does not replace reinforcement, it temporarily staves it off to keep units in the fight, or to cover a super risky retreat. Having no forward retreat point I really dislike having to jog all the way home from my enemies fuel on some maps, like Minsk, where by the time I get home and run back 3 minutes have passed.

buff button vehicle

guards are fine otherwise

Why does OP open a thread if he is totally bias and totally narrow minded, listening to no one ? its not your twitter or your facebook

Why does OP open a thread if he is totally bias and totally narrow minded, listening to no one ? its not your twitter or your facebook

Because forum rules go against impolite, not against stupid or bad

Because forum rules go against impolite, not against stupid or bad

Narrow minded and closed to discussion isnt a form of impolite ?

Guards are far from UP.

They're a support infantry unit, designed to soak up damage and take on vehicles.

Infact, I think they actually have slightly too high dmg resistance.

If there is 1 thing guards are not, it's underpowered.

If you are having trouble using button, try not using it at max range. Vehicles can still more slowly while buttoned and if they reverse out of range, the button will be interrupted. Try closing in a bit with your guards before you active button.

Guards are underpowered ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks.
What does this imply exactly?

If you cons are wounded when they merge into guards they will be wounded. Its quite literally taking the guy from the con squad and sticking him in the guards squad, bleeding bullet wound and all.

Vet: Vet is applied BY MODEL (to my understanding) so that a conscript that joins a vet3 guard squad will be a vet 3 conscript. They do not get the Guard model bonuses

I dont think thats true...
veterancy is definitely squad based.

Based off your example, If i merge some conscripts into a vet 1 maxim, the conscript models wouldn't sprint alongside the vet1 maxim models because theyre using conscript vet instead of the maxim vet?

Or if i merge conscripts into a vet 2 penal, are you telling me the cons arent gonna get the oorah ability because they're cons not penals?

Or merging cons into vetted engineers means my engineers will repair slower?

if you're using the editor, ebps stats(which doesnt include vet) carries over with merge, crewing mgs with a new squad, etc,

while sbps stats(including veterancy) is usually what the squad would inherit if they merged into/crewed a weapon.

Merged cons are reset to vet0 con models (as in extra easy to hit) then the squad vet is applied AFAIK (so because of the higher starting received accuracy the merged models will be easier to hit)

for 330mp they are overpriced at their current stats, for being mostly similar to conscripts with better weapons and still requiring 75munitions more to be roughly equal to grens.

they should be better, if not cheaper. maybe a 290mp price tag with reinforcement costs reduced to adjust.

or

since they are primarily defensive troops and are 4 models useless on the move, they need better survivability against indirect explosive weapons. give them a raw boost in hp to maybe 90 to help them resist mortar rounds.

Only thing about Guards is that I wish I could choose to upgrade into PTRS. That aim time is disastrous when you have to stay mobile. You think the DPS drop is bad when you move an LMG squad...

I dont think thats true...
veterancy is definitely squad based.

Based off your example, If i merge some conscripts into a vet 1 maxim, the conscript models wouldn't sprint alongside the vet1 maxim models because theyre using conscript vet instead of the maxim vet?

Sprint is an ability that is unlocked with vet, that when used, applied sprint to the entities.

Or if i merge conscripts into a vet 2 penal, are you telling me the cons arent gonna get the oorah ability because they're cons not penals?

Again, abilities aren't triggered on the entity level. You don't select individual conscripts to oorah.

Or merging cons into vetted engineers means my engineers will repair slower?

Perhaps, as they may not get bonuses to repair from veterancy. A vet 3 engi squad getting vet 0 conscripts may very well repair slower. But the fact that there is such a thing as conscript repair, I really am unsure exactly how repair works with merging conscripts. That's actually an interesting question.

But anyway, the veterancy is squad based, yeah, but when bonuses are applied from that squad onto the entities, those effects are retained by the entities when they change to a new squad.

This is why, I believe, there were issues with modifiers being duplicated in the past. This all may be entirely different, especially with the fixes to said veterancy bugs. But I believe if you got vet 3 cons to merge into a vet 0 squad, you could potentially stack vet. But that would only be on an individual entity that merged. Once that guy died it'd be lost. That could be different now.

So 'to' the model rather than 'by' the model would be more accurate, I guess. But once again, this may not be the case anymore. I haven't really looked into vet that closely after that patch.

Perhaps, as they may not get bonuses to repair from veterancy. A vet 3 engi squad getting vet 0 conscripts may very well repair slower. But the fact that there is such a thing as conscript repair, I really am unsure exactly how repair works with merging conscripts. That's actually an interesting question.

But anyway, the veterancy is squad based, yeah, but when bonuses are applied from that squad onto the entities, those effects are retained by the entities when they change to a new squad.

I didnt ask the questions in literal terms, they were meant to be rhetorical.

a vet 3 engy squad with cons in it will repair just as fast as one without cons in it because its a squad based bonus.

a vet 3 con merging into an engineer will lose its terminator received accuracy bonuses gained from its conscript veterancy, and become an engineer veterancy wise. They reset right back to vet 0, or whatever-vet-of-the-squad-whatever-they-merged into.

The only thing the squad retains whem merging and crewing is its unique entity identity. aka ebps. its seriously not that intricate.

You can simply test it for yourself if you still dont believe me.

for 330mp they are overpriced at their current stats, for being mostly similar to conscripts with better weapons and still requiring 75munitions more to be roughly equal to grens.

they should be better, if not cheaper. maybe a 290mp price tag with reinforcement costs reduced to adjust.

or

since they are primarily defensive troops and are 4 models useless on the move, they need better survivability against indirect explosive weapons. give them a raw boost in hp to maybe 90 to help them resist mortar rounds.

No, they are not.
They are pretty good out of the gate and become amazing with vet and DPs.

There is no similarity between them and conscripts, guard mosins are actually strong weapons, when cons use disguised water guns.