Guards are underpowered

lol

Anyone else sees them as useless and a total waste of both mu and mp?

They come in late at 2CP.
They cost a lot to reinforce, but their armor is barely higher than conscripts.
Their DPS is the same as a regular grenadier squad, are you serious?
They are useless shit until you upgrade them with a 75mu lmg.
Their button is useless too, costing 40 mu on top of needing the lmg upgrade ?????
Their grenade costs 45mu but does near no damage, and no damage at all in buildings.

They aren't strong enough to kill a luchs alone and they cost 330mp ?
They can barely kill a 222 now.

You want penals to have some use, but what about guards infantry?

Even conscripts with ptrs is a better use of mp/mu.

2CP - You mean like almost every other Call-in Infantry (Ostruppen and Ass Grens aside?)

Of course they cost more to reenforce - they are elite infantry. Why get Cons if they would cost the same upkeep? Only Shock Troopers and Heavy Engineers have Armor... I don't know what you mean.

Cost is about more than DPS - you're paying for their utility of having Upgrades, Stock Grenades, and Light AT - you could say the same thing about Grens being useless without LMG42. The grenades are awesome, if you whiff in a building its because you didn't throw it at the windows with models in them.

If you think they should be able to solo a Luchs then you are SEVERELY delusional about their role. They are to deter light vehicles alone (2+ Guards will quickly force off a Luches though)

@ Cons PTRS

Its very difficult to use them as replacement mainline infantry due to cost (just like OKW can't spam Falls or OST can't spam PZ Grens). It's all about using them correctly - they are rather good now after they fixed Veterancy.

You say I can't use them as main inf but you suggest I get 2+ guards?

Actually fallspam and PGspam is a thing, and it works.

Guards are perfectly fine. The only change I would consider for them is perhaps reducing the cost of Button, but even at 40 MU, it's a powerful ability when used correctly.

I want to use them as main infantry to replace conscripts in between early and mid game.
I know this is wrong, but any other use seems so bad compared with other tools soviet have.

I understand it's no use to spawn more than one guard.

so you basicly defeated your own self in your arguement in your first sentence.

and what the hell do you mean you don't use more then one gaurd

The only thing that guards need is an option to replace their dropped weapons.

And I hate picking a doctrine to get them, but oh well that's the commander design.

Guards are very good unit for defence, of course they are weaker than specialized AI squads at offence, but this is 6 men squad with 40% rec. accuracy at 3rd star, put them into green cover and they will be very resistant.

Guards, like all lmg wielding units, are best in a garrison. PTRS and DP both perform much better when in a house or an M3/M5.

The only thing that guards need is an option to replace their dropped weapons.

And I hate picking a doctrine to get them, but oh well that's the commander design.

So in your opinion button is fine as it is?
Also the drop rate is too high, they drop thing like a fucking piñata just hit get the candy, I'm not kidding.

I want to use them as main infantry to replace conscripts in between early and mid game.
I know this is wrong, but any other use seems so bad compared with other tools soviet have.

I understand it's no use to spawn more than one guard.

This is completely the wrong way to use these units. Use them to back up conscripts and merge to keep them on the field longer.

You have identified the problem yourself, you need to change how they are used not ask the unit to change.

2 Guards can be very useful in cases, but I would never go more than 2. Their AT potential with two squads is actually respectable (40x4=160 damage on first volley).

Guards are some of my favorite faction infantry. They function decently in many roles (almost impossible to not find a use for them during any engagement), they also benefit from faction specific abilities (merge), and have a nice large squad size making wipes rare.


On the drop rate, that was standardized with other units. They drop items more rarely because they carry more. Stop getting them down to single men when you retreat and you will find they do not have butter fingers.

I want to use them as main infantry to replace conscripts in between early and mid game.
I know this is wrong, but any other use seems so bad compared with other tools soviet have.

I understand it's no use to spawn more than one guard.

First of all, I must point out the most obvious mistake right there. Trying to use them as frontline infantry. Guards riflemen are not supposed to be used like that in the first place due to the fact that they have high reinforcement costs and if you lose plenty of models in the field, you will be bleeding manpower like a stuffed pig. Just like the USF had a problem with their manpower bleeding before some patch saved their entire faction...

Guards are meant to be used alongside conscripts to deter light vehicles and finish them off when they're at their critical part of their health thanks to anti-tank guns or anti-tank grenades.

Besides, if you use them as mainline infantry, who is going to act as your meatshields against snipers, MGs, anti-infantry light vehicles? It's just that you are not using them right.

They're meant to be used alongside conscripts due to their anti-tank snares and especially ZIS guns since their button ability allows the anti-tank guns to get a few shots off before the targeted vehicles/tanks get away. Now the Ostheer and the OKW may have their blitzkrieg abilities to get them out of the area and break out of the button's ability, but that is what conscripts are for. To deny such vehicles a possible way out.

Although Guards are categorized as 'elite' infantry, they're just infantry with better equipment and stats than regular frontline units like conscripts or penals at the cost of high reinforcement rates. I do think their munition abilities could get some decrease in cost, but other than that matter they're quite good for their cost.

The only complain I have about Guard is that they drop weapons like crazy and Merge DO NOT give back weapons lost, so I prefer if they just spawn without weapons and you can choose either PTRS or DP-28, maybe reduce their MP cost a little bit to like 320MP.

The problem with guards is that they are dropping too many weapons for enemy, it's like a walking loot box, I think both Dp and PTRS on guards should get DPS doubled but only one Dp and one PTRS..

a vet 3 guards with both dp defeat falls and jeager both vet 5,fllas one is close to a draw but they lose to fussies so yeaht they are actually great

I understand what you all said and I thank you.

The problem I'm having right now is that microing units with soviets is so fucking hard, it's undescribing, I understand why all the other factions just blob and charge.

Having to watch and displace your cons+maxim and the guards on top of that, it's hell of a difficulty, not even talking about the 120mm.

Also the clown car and M5 are too weak and die instantly which is sad because garisoned guards are strong.


I seriously think their DPS isn't right when they have DP28 and that they drop too much weapon without getting it back.

Can you explain to me why merging is a good idea? if you merge guards with cons do the cons get the guards stats?

meh, now that they dont dance around they are mostly fine, drop button cost a bit and they would be great. complaining that they arnt effective con replacements is like plopping shocks in cover trying to out gun grens at range and complaining about their poor DPS
click on guards and what do they say?
"you need LIGHT anti-tank SUPPORT?"
they are LIGHT at SUPPORT troops
use them like grens and you will find them much better than if you try and use them like cons.
long range behind cover, and even a luchs would need to think twice as button means he cant outrun your con snare, which means he's dead. as dirt

Can you explain to me why merging is a good idea? if you merge guards with cons do the cons get the guards stats?

merge keeps your guards on the field, instead of retreating, sure you could use a halftrack... but guards are expensive and cons...arnt..
the biggest reason is that it keeps an expensive, important squad on the field instead of running around

merge transfers con models to the guard squad, afaik it inherits the guards offencive stats but the cons defencive stats
so you will have con models (1.08 recc acc and all) but guards weapons

a thing to note however is it is a straight up model transfer- so wounded cons will become wounder guards
oh and never EVER merge into a smaller squad than you have models.... you will consume the con squad (as in if you have 2 members of guards and 3 cons, you will have 5 guards and no cons)

a thing to note however is it is a straight up model transfer- so wounded cons will become wounder guards

Thanks.
What does this imply exactly?

Personally I would prefer it if Guards weren't a jack of all trades. They try to fulfill an Anti-Infantry and an Anti-vehicle role and fail at both. The DP-28 and the PTRS should be exclusive upgrades so that you have to pick between one or the other. In doing so we could see a slight buff to each weapon.

For the Dp-28 the Fire While prone requirement should get removed for better squad animation and responsiveness. They feel a bit clunky at times. Maybe fire on the move like Browning Automatic Rifles.


Panzershrek :Ready Aim Time: 0.625

Bazooka: Ready Aim Time 0.625

Piat: Ready Aim Time 0.625

PTRS: Ready Aim Time: 2

PTRS should be strictly Anti-Tank (it can do some damage to infantry)
Aim time for PTRS should get dropped down to 0.625 like all the other factions. The worst Infantry AT weapon combined with the substantial increase in aiming time really kills Guard usefulness. Vehicle Button has 30 range, it should be 40 to match the range of the PTRS.

Also weapons (PTRS/DP-28) Should only drop on Squad Wipe.

Anyone else sees them as useless and a total waste of both mu and mp?

They come in late at 2CP.
They cost a lot to reinforce, but their armor is barely higher than conscripts.
Their DPS is the same as a regular grenadier squad, are you serious?
They are useless shit until you upgrade them with a 75mu lmg.
Their button is useless too, costing 40 mu on top of needing the lmg upgrade ?????
Their grenade costs 45mu but does near no damage, and no damage at all in buildings.

They aren't strong enough to kill a luchs alone and they cost 330mp ?
They can barely kill a 222 now.

You want penals to have some use, but what about guards infantry?

Even conscripts with ptrs is a better use of mp/mu.

Guards are without doubt the best soviet infantry. As for your complaints,

2 CP is not late for elite infantry call in.
As far as I know, the only infantry unit in the game with armor are shocks, so that's no surprise.
Their DPS is as good a regular grenadier squad with an lmg. That's very good.
Their button ability is definitely not useless, if that's what you think you're using it wrong.

No, an infantry unit that costs 330mp and is not even a dedicated AT squad can't kill a 65 fuel anti-infantry light tank on their own. They must suck.(kappa) The funny thing is if you get them close and button the luchs, they actually can could it by themselves, or hold it in place for an at gun to do the job, which is what the ability is meant for.

The only thing I don't like about them is that they drop their weapons so easily. One unlucky mortar hit on a squad that has to be stationary to use 4 of their 6 weapons makes them drop a weapon most of the time, and not only is the enemy likely to recover it, but you can't even replace it on the squad.