Why change the spawn system?

Hello, i don't understand.

If Relic wanted this game to be like CoH1 they simply would have made it like CoH1 with units spawning from all the buildings magically out of thin air, but no they designed it to be so it would be more a ''realistic'' way that units spawn outside the map running into the field.

So why change this that has been a important way of how CoH2 has been now since 2013? I mean then you might as well just make tanks also spawn out of thin air out of the buildings at the bases?

Also this change has made me think this upcoming patch is designed for 1 vs 1 people ignoring rest of the players that play this game that is probably more then the people that play 1 vs 1 considering how long people have to wait in queue's to even get a competitive game.

So i have a better idea then to ruin the whole experience for the rest of the players that is not all about 1 vs 1.

Make this upcoming change as a mod then let the people that want a more normal way of playing it have their units spawning outside the map then just appearing out of thin air!

Also this idea just very bad this will just make people spawn kill your units easier now by just spamming arty at the buildings killing your units every time you spawn them so yeah...

And obviously im gonna get attacked now by competitive people telling me that everyone who plays this game only plays 1 vs 1 but sure, tell me why you want this weird change, would love to understand why people want this..

Is it changing?

I don't understand why it's changing either.

It's going to speed up the early game quite significantly. Ostheer is going to save like 20 seconds of walking time to get grenadiers on the field. Not to mention the Sniper.

They just adjusted the maxim build times, but with this change they'll arrive on the field earlier than ever.

Not sure if OKW is affected either. Being able to build ISG or Obers at the truck would be a big deal.

I don't understand why it's changing either.

+1

Change makes no sense to me either. What's wrong with the existing spawn system?

EDIT: I was wrong on this post. Don't read this.

I wish they reconsider.

If that change does what it says it does, it will disrupt 2v2 and 4v4 and it will completely destroy 3v3:

In 1v1, perhaps it might shave off 5-10 seconds of movement time.

However, in 2v2 and up, you will be unable to spawn units from your allies' base etc.

I don't want to be a Cassandra, but this sounds like a complete disaster waiting to happen for 3v3:
- You have all those 4v4 maps used for 3v3 (e.g., City 17)
- You can't control which of the 4 bases will be occupied by you and your teammates
- If the random placement screws you up a bit, that change will ensure you will never get a good grip of a remote sector.

Now, regarding base-sector rushes, I am not sure how it will help you fend these off. At the very least it will make your spawn points more predictable (and, thus, camp-able).

To get rekt by random positions in every battle.

Also; how on earth the USF pack howie and atg can get out of the base?

it will make game get going faster which is good, also placement of buildings will now matter further increasing skill in the game... it is a good change

Everyone hated that units came offmap when coh2 was launched... now you hate it when they are going back that every rts has done since stoneage?

I don't understand why it's changing either.

It's going to speed up the early game quite significantly. Ostheer is going to save like 20 seconds of walking time to get grenadiers on the field. Not to mention the Sniper.

They just adjusted the maxim build times, but with this change they'll arrive on the field earlier than ever.

Not sure if OKW is affected either. Being able to build ISG or Obers at the truck would be a big deal.

grenadiers will arrive faster also which means the change has no impact on the early game... maxim build times are more meant to punish players who spam maxims not cripple a single maxim being built.

I'm not a fan of this change. Coming from off map felt more immersive, its unique to COH2, and it hardly effected game play.

I'm of the mindset "it it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Tbh it looks like a lot of these changes were put forward to see what sticks and what doesn't. I doubt this one will make it past the beta.

Yeah, it's a balance test mod. If people actually play this one, we should be able to find what works and what is no good.

Wait, they're finally getting rid of this stupid as fuck feature and actually spawning units from the buildings they were produced in? Holy shit it's about time. Maybe I'll try CoH2 again after that gets implemented.

Wait, they're finally getting rid of this stupid as fuck feature and actually spawning units from the buildings they were produced in? Holy shit it's about time. Maybe I'll try CoH2 again after that gets implemented.

Pretty much, I hated this stupid spawn off the map crap since release.

Wait, they're finally getting rid of this stupid as fuck feature and actually spawning units from the buildings they were produced in? Holy shit it's about time. Maybe I'll try CoH2 again after that gets implemented.

Pretty much, I hated this stupid spawn off the map crap since release.

Can somebody explain why, though?

I can see that change creating issues, where some issues already existed:
- Random placement screwing players over in 2v2 and above.
- Limiting the dynamics of teamgames to feel more lane-based than before.

Balance-wise (might or might not be a bad thing):
- Making base-rushes even more deadly, since the enemy can predict where you will spawn.

Is this about aesthetics (which is subjective), or does this change actually solve any gameplay issues that I am currently oblivious to?

Wait, they're finally getting rid of this stupid as fuck feature and actually spawning units from the buildings they were produced in? Holy shit it's about time. Maybe I'll try CoH2 again after that gets implemented.

Pretty much, I hated this stupid spawn off the map crap since release.

Can somebody explain why, though?

I can see that change creating issues, where some issues already existed:
- Random placement screwing players over in 2v2 and above.
- Limiting the dynamics of teamgames to feel more lane-based than before.

Balance-wise (might or might not be a bad thing):
- Making base-rushes even more deadly, since the enemy can predict where you will spawn.

Is this about aesthetics (which is subjective), or does this change actually solve any gameplay issues that I am currently oblivious to?

I agree, pls explain.
It makes sense to have units come from off-map. OKW have a distinct advantage over other factions here.
Don't fix what isn't broken.

The point is to make placing buildings important. If you wanna play super safe, place your buildings at the back of your base. If you wanna play super agressive and hi-risk, place your buildings at the very front of your base. Your units get out faster, but you run the risk of your buildings being sniped by AT-guns or tanks.

The point is to put some more strategy back into this game. The designers blundered when they removed strategic elements from COH2. The left-hand-side and right-hand-side commander tree choices from COH1 are a perfect example. Why in the world would you remove that system, and make commander abilities auto-unlock? Were they trying to take the "S" out of RTS?!?

Anything they do to put more strategy back into the game is a good thing, imo. I never liked the off-map spawn points.

Despite all the changes in the proposed patch, this one may be one of the most significant. Ppl may claim to love or hate it, but nobody really knows the impact it will have on the game. I'm not sure claiming that this will put importance on building placement is a strong argument. In the 3s and 4s, if you want to help teammates, the current system helped out on maps with large base areas like Steppes and City 17.

"Risky" building placement never seemed like an issue. There are hardly any maps where your base buildings are regularly being harassed or even destroyed especially beyond 1v1s. OP brings up a good point, but why blame competitive 1v1 players? It's like you are trying to preemptively invalidate any argument based along those lines while trying to give your own opinion some moral high ground. If anything, this change seems like a desire more befitting of the Old Guard who love CoH1 the most in their heart of hearts.

The off-map spawn system was an artificial attempt to inject some realism into the game at the pure expense of gameplay. It was only there to make the game seem more "real". It had no gameplay benefit; in fact, it made gameplay worse.

First of all, it made building placement essentially irrelevant. That alone isn't really a big deal, but because Relic trimmed away strategic decision-making in so many other places at the same time, it meant one less meaningful decision for players to have to make. You could lose games in CoH1, and in pretty much every other RTS game in existence, thanks to poor building placement. CoH2 lacking that decision was just one less decision it forced players to make, and the whole point of a competitive game is forcing players to make decisions that have real consequences.

Second, it forced you to babysit your rally points. You could argue that this meant good players were able to use this to their advantage, and you would be right, but that doesn't make it less silly. If there was some other way besides rally points to decide which point units spawned at you could make a stronger argument that they added interesting gameplay, but the way they were implemented was just ridiculous.

And finally, they made microing and using newly created units frustrating as fuck. A good player is going to keep track of build progress and use units the moment they're created. But thanks to the off-map spawn system, units couldn't be fully controlled unit they walked onto the map proper. The most frustrating side effect of this was the fact that you couldn't issue repair orders until the unit was on the map, which means the gameplay flow of a good player who sees a repair unit is finished, selects it, clicks on a unit to repair, and then shifts his attention to other things is completely ruined. You have to keep going back to check on that unit to see if it's on the field yet or not, and the time it takes for a unit to get on the field is different for every map, every starting position, and every spawn point. A unit should be fully usable the moment it is available to be selected; anything else is a recipe for frustration. You also couldn't view and select units the moment they spawned on some maps and in some starting positions, which meant time wasted waiting for units to walk into your camera view. You would be punished for being fast and reacting immediately to new unit production.

It made for extremely frustrating and jarring moments for players, and it gave absolutely no benefit in return. It was a pure "realism" design element that actively made gameplay worse. It never should have been there in the first place.

The point is to make placing buildings important. If you wanna play super safe, place your buildings at the back of your base. If you wanna play super agressive and hi-risk, place your buildings at the very front of your base. Your units get out faster, but you run the risk of your buildings being sniped by AT-guns or tanks.

The point is to put some more strategy back into this game. The designers blundered when they removed strategic elements from COH2. The left-hand-side and right-hand-side commander tree choices from COH1 are a perfect example. Why in the world would you remove that system, and make commander abilities auto-unlock? Were they trying to take the "S" out of RTS?!?

Anything they do to put more strategy back into the game is a good thing, imo. I never liked the off-map spawn points.

Aside from being a direct nerf to USF and UKF, factions that can't place building where the player wants, I don't see any benefice to that change and how it brings more strategy. everyone build close to the limit because everyone want to get his troops faster on the field. this also allow you to reinforce at your base limit to have a better defense if you are pushed back. Being able to snipe the building means you already won or lost the game.

But I agree on your second paragraph same if I don't include this feature on it.

You should already be building base buildings at base limits so you can reinforce closer to the field. This change only affects new unit production, which would significantly speed up earlygame engagements considering how fucking far units have to trek across their HQ sectors right now.