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Updates on BALANCE PREVIEW MOD

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22 Apr 2016, 08:09 AM
#101
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:59 AMKatitof

And no one ever said anything else.
You'd knew if you'd wiped the tears and read what I actually write.


You sound like with current med truck you always retreat with full model squads without casualties.
Please, be serious here :snfBarton:



I did(yes Banana, much to your surprise, I still do as you can tell by my rankings not being hidden).
It wasn't an issue back then, it won't be an issue now.

Again, people going mechanized always had late healing, they did fine. 30 seconds later won't make any difference to the models, only to economy and decision making.



Evidence:
Now:
OKW has free additions to teching.
OKW has cheapest teching in game.
In the mod:
OKW doesn't have freebies as the only faction in game, because there is no economical reason for it(no resource penalty)
OKW gets side tech costs, which put their tech costs in line with all other armies with fuel and especially menpower costs.


Thank you for backing your arguments with points instead of "Deal with it" gifs this time around and fair enough, if that is your position I won't argue further with it. Probably need to look at teching costs as well before I compare the cost for each faction.

The only argument I will at this point raise is simple. The decision making has a greater implication on the game (match) than the other alternatives as other healing options are "natural outcome of teching" rather than "Exclusionary" (to a certain extent).

(And yeah... I had a few matches where the sturmpio was down to 4 man... with one bullet's worth of health left.... was not amusing since I could not heal)

PS: No tears :) - This is the internet, and crying over shit is silly :p. Leave that for tears for when my potato is burnt.

22 Apr 2016, 08:11 AM
#102
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



edited my signature to include the link.

You do an immeasurable service to theorycraft warriors like myself everywhere /salute
22 Apr 2016, 08:16 AM
#103
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1



It's not just the veterancy bonuses; it's that they have those incredibly high bonuses AND can get a ton of AI upgrades. If they were limited to one AI upgrade, it probably wouldn't be a problem. But once late game rolls around you see multiple Vet 3 Dual BAR squads roaming around (yes, even in a close game) wrecking everything.


Close to mid range is pretty much the only range they are stronger than an lmg42. 2 bars do less damage at max range than a lmg42 (range of 25 to 35). And a single dps causing gun is also arguably better than 2 doing the same damage since it focusses down 1 entity instead of potentially 2.

I think the issue with rifles is dual 1919s. 1919s should require 2 slots to prevent this.


On top of that due to their large squad size and relatively low reinforce cost, most of the usual counters don't really work. Snipers don't fire fast enough (6 man squads), mortars won't get a wipe since they're too spread out (6 man squad), MGs need a lot of micro/support (smoke), and even vet 3 grens w/ LMGs don't trade well (even at range), despite having a higher base AND reinforce cost while also being having 2 less models.

Rifles are 5 men squads. The ost sniper does overperform versus any squad smaller than 6. Their reinforce is 28 which isn't low and was the reason for the changes in veterancy bonuses.
22 Apr 2016, 08:16 AM
#104
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Thank you for backing your arguments with points instead of "Deal with it" gifs this time around and fair enough, if that is your position I won't argue further with it. Probably need to look at teching costs as well before I compare the cost for each faction.

The only argument I will at this point raise is simple. The decision making has a greater implication on the game (match) than the other alternatives as other healing options are "natural outcome of teching" rather than "Exclusionary" (to a certain extent).

(And yeah... I had a few matches where the sturmpio was down to 4 man... with one bullet's worth of health left.... was not amusing since I could not heal)


:thumbsup:
These boards need more players like you, without all the last stands for the father/motheland for healthier discussions.

PS: No tears :) - This is the internet, and crying over shit is silly :p. Leave that for tears for when my potato is burnt.




:p
22 Apr 2016, 08:17 AM
#105
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740

I'm a bit critical about the flame sdkfz as I already loved it and I really think it is very strong atm. Now it's even cheaper.
22 Apr 2016, 08:20 AM
#106
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:59 AMKatitof

.


You played a match? I-is this real life?


Edit: Why does my smartphone doesnt show .gifs anymore :(
22 Apr 2016, 08:25 AM
#107
avatar of TheMux2

Posts: 139

pretty sure this was all done after i was gone haha but hell lets blame me for these changes too haha.

The difference is that these changes are good. Yours werent.
22 Apr 2016, 08:39 AM
#108
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



You played a match? I-is this real life?

You have no idea how often I get that line in-game :romeoHype:
22 Apr 2016, 09:23 AM
#109
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

There are only 1 or 2 things I'm not sure about but overall this preview patch seems really nice on paper. We'll obviously have to test how it plays.

The only thing I'd like to have added is the removal of forward retreat points (usf major, okw t2, ukf assembly). In 1v1 they don't have a big impact but in 2v2 and up they lead to frustrating gameplay.
22 Apr 2016, 09:32 AM
#110
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1



You know what'd be great? If instead of raising the fuel cost on everything OKW does if they just brought back old OKW and made small adjustments? The reason OKW was so unpopular before is because people didn't get how they worked. Mechanized had resource conversion because in order to pay for light vehicles you needed it. BHQ was all about supporting mass elite infantry and using jagdpanzer, volks and raketen as AT. Flak command was about giving you game finishing heavy tanks to complement mechanized, or obersoldaten/luchs for a mid game shock unit to complement BHQ.

But that didn't fit into the 4 infantry + light tank rush + medium tank spam metagame, so they loss the sturmtiger for PzIV and then we got the big OKW rework in October and now this shit. Now we get 4 volks + luchs + panzer IV metagame and all is well!




all is well?

funny, because 90% of the community says OKW is a shrek blob faction since the dawn.

tell me who's right
22 Apr 2016, 09:44 AM
#111
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673

Hm... they made panzerfausts for volksgrenadeers able only after truck building.

Maybe Ost grenadeers should also get their fausts unlocked after getting T2 upgrade?
22 Apr 2016, 09:54 AM
#112
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

Hm... they made panzerfausts for volksgrenadeers able only after truck building.

Maybe Ost grenadeers should also get their fausts unlocked after getting T2 upgrade?

If you wold actually play ostheer you would know that you unlock Faust after you build Tier 1. :facepalm:
22 Apr 2016, 09:55 AM
#113
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571


If you wold actually play ostheer you would know that you unlock Faust after you build Tier 1. :facepalm:


MissCommissar is suggesting a nerf by moving it to tier II instead of I.
22 Apr 2016, 09:56 AM
#114
avatar of siuking666

Posts: 707

That SU-85 nerfs... Its an overexpensive bad joke Jackson


Nerf? are you stupid?
22 Apr 2016, 09:57 AM
#115
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673


If you wold actually play ostheer you would know that you unlock Faust after you build Tier 1. :facepalm:


But... if YOU would actually play ostheer, you would know, that grenadeers are coming from same Tier 1 building. So, technicaly, they getting fausts even before they are coming :D
22 Apr 2016, 10:02 AM
#116
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1



But... if YOU would actually play ostheer, you would know, that grenadeers are coming from same Tier 1 building. So, technicaly, they getting fausts even before they are coming :D

Because ostheer cant build mainline infantry from t0? And osttruppen for example cant use Panzerfaust before building t1 and (im quite sure) you cant use Faust when you destroy the t1 of ostheer anymore. But yes i definitely need to start to play all faction:sibPheasant::sibPheasant:
22 Apr 2016, 10:05 AM
#117
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673


Because ostheer cant build mainline infantry from t0? And osttruppen for example cant use Panzerfaust before building t1 and (im quite sure) you cant use Faust when you destroy the t1 of ostheer anymore. But yes i definitely need to start to play all faction:sibPheasant::sibPheasant:


Er... I don't get it about "can't build mainline infantry from T0".

But anyway, moving Pfaust from T1 building to T2 upgrade would make using M3, WC51 and such light allies cars more reasonable.

22 Apr 2016, 10:07 AM
#118
avatar of MoerserKarL
Donator 22

Posts: 1108

wow they should reset the ladders as well. This will be a complete new game. Can't wait to test it out.
-USF mortar nice one and finally the M8 Motor Carriage cant get oneshotted
-more penetration for the SU85 are also very welcome but why do they replaced the reload modifier :/
-Sandbags for OH?! indirect buff for LMG grens. +1

the only two things that I dont understand, is why nerfing the Rear armoured from the tiger and why do volks gets no snare, when the Panzerfaust works just like the Grenadier Panzerfaust?

22 Apr 2016, 10:07 AM
#119
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1



Er... I don't get it about "can't build mainline infantry from T0".

But anyway, moving Pfaust from T1 building to T2 upgrade would make using M3, WC51 and such light allies cars more reasonable.


You mean blatantly OP? They are quite useful right now, just dont drive into Faust range, but I guess you dont want to learn that since you despite such "nerdy" tactics
22 Apr 2016, 10:12 AM
#120
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673


You mean blatantly OP? They are quite useful right now, just dont drive into Faust range, but I guess you dont want to learn that since you despite such "nerdy" tactics


They are sooo quite useful, that almost everyone says, that M3 car is pretty trashy, yea.

I just like it really.

M3 car price - 190 MP, 15 fuel.

222 car price - 210 MP, 15 fuel.

M3 - carrier infantry, 2 lame LMGs on hull, deals damage to infantry and small cars.

222 - penetrates my T-70/AEC/Stuart/M15/M5/M3.., can into effective AA, dealing damage to infantry...

From that point, I think 222 should cost at least 25 fuel per car.
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