Ostheer and Soviets obsolete?

And by 'obsolete' in mean in the 'enjoyment to play' sense. Let me explain.

A friend of mine started playing the game 1-2 weeks ago. So he started with Soviets since the campaign is about them, etc. We did some comp-stomping together, but yesterday he said he wanted to try something different. So I suggested USF. After a couple of matches with USF he said he finds them way easier to play than Soviets. Not easier in the sense of winning, but easier in the sense of comfortable to play. And that's exactly the feeling I got when I switched from Ostheer to OKW.

Everything in the WFA factions is so streamlined, the game just flows naturally:
1. No base construction, so your initial engineers are free to roam the map planting mines and causing trouble.
2. The OKW mech HQ can repair vehicles so you don't need extra engineers usually. USF tank crews can jump out and repair their own vehicle.
3. Kubels can cap and attack.
4. USF weapon racks allow you to customize your riflemen/rear echelons as you like.
5. Volks can get Schreks and riflemen can get zooks so they continue to be useful even when vehicles hit the field and even vet faster this way.
6. The OKW medical truck can reinforce and heal and be a forward retreat point. The USF ambulance can reinforce and heal and move around. No need to build a separate bunker and upgrade it just to get healing OR reinforcement like Ostheer need to do.
7. The resources spent teching are actually put to good use since you get the OKW trucks with awesome functionality or the USF officers. I think this is probably the most important point, because you make an investment and get something useful back. By contrast, the Ostheer is stuck in Age of Empires times with HQ upgrades that feel like artificial tech speed bumps - spend resources for the opportunity to spend resources.

In a way WFA kind of ruined immersion for COH2 since for me the vanilla factions seem to belong to a long forgotten RTS age, while the WFA ones have all the cool new toys.

Thoughts?

I cant really judge this myself as I started this game with OKW because my mate told me to start with it. Recently started playing Brits too. Also enjoy that a lot.

I think Brits and OKW are somewhat limited in teching posibilities compared to Soviet and Ost so there is their downside in that.

I think the word "classic" is better than obsolete

I agree with that new factions have some remarkable advantages in certain aspects and that's to make sure people are attracted to them so they will buy it.

But none should deny the power of "old" factions. MG42 are still the best defensive MG and Bunkers are twice as useful and flexible than ambulance and Medic HQ.

The power of OKW and Ostheer combined are most deadly, same can be said about USF, Soviet and UKF combined, because they can fill in the roles one could not assume alone.

In my opinion, you are not so far of the truth. Ostheer and soviet's are still powerfull in their kind.

But, the new DLC stuff make them .. maybe a bit old style. And for me, soviet's are the forgoten faction from coh2.

I really like that difference but I started when only the two vanilla factions were available back in Beta days.

I enjoy the fact that I can choose between the "oldshool" teaching/building stuff of the old factions and the more "modern" WFA factions. It's somehow like a different game except the core mechanics.

When the Brits were released I was a but jealous tbh. There so much stuff and abilities that gives them flavor. Granades from the tank hatches and stuff like upgrading to 5 man tommys. Somehow I'd really like to see something like this added to Ost and Sov. Brits feel like they got a bit more love in the design process. Not talking mechanics or balance here. Just the feeling of the faction.

In my opinion, you are not so far of the truth. Ostheer and soviet's are still powerfull in their kind.

But, the new DLC stuff make them .. maybe a bit old style. And for me, soviet's are the forgoten faction from coh2.

Ostheer and soviet are not powerful, but firm and steady. They provide you all options you need in any situation, except late soviet in team match.

Again, I am not debating the balance of the game. All factions have access to appropriate counters, I was merely pointing out that I find the vanilla ones more tedious to play and 'old school'.

I realize the 7 points above might come across as "omg WFA factions so OP", but my point was that they make the factions more relaxing to play, not more powerful.

Thoughts?

Vanilla factions are old school for sure but provides you a large panel of possibilities. There is a reason why Sov and Ostheer are still the most used faction in tournaments, because you can pretty much face any situations with your stock troops to a certain extend which is what the majority of the best players wants.

OKW and USF have been design around a lack and strength, ex: lack of early support units option and strong mainline infantry. This was more visible when WFA was release and lot less since OKW has been half revamp.
You can still see that in the sniper fight, USF is pretty much fucked vs a good sniper micro which is dumb but as per design a wanted lack.

Now are they easier to use, I'm not sure. Are they easier to take in hand, yes probably. but it wasn't the case a year ago and grinding up the ELO system your friend will discover that overcoming an artificial lack is sometime painful.

Now are they easier to use, I'm not sure. Are they easier to take in hand, yes probably. but it wasn't the case a year ago and grinding up the ELO system your friend will discover that overcoming an artificial lack is sometime painful.

I doubt he will bother with 1v1 or anything, he's a casual comp-stomper.

Sov are not interested to play with

+1 to the OP. I feel the exact same, vanilla factions are dull and sometimes tedious to play, and i'm not talking balance either.

Power creep from being newer. I don't mean balance wise, but new features like forward retreat points, not having to build your base buildings, more diverse abilities etc. all make playing the newer factions easier.

Power creep from being newer. I don't mean balance wise, but new features like forward retreat points, not having to build your base buildings, more diverse abilities etc. all make playing the newer factions easier.

I wouldn't call it easier, but with the toys new armies have, vanila ones feel... bland, tasteless.
Sov flavor is pic doc asap or GTFO.
Ost, well, OKW can do everything Ost can, but better, cheaper and faster. Tiger and snipers are the only things going for ost over OKW.

That's the essence of power creep.

By the way I enjoy vanilla factions much more due to:

• well paced combat
  
• slow gradual teching
  
• usage of combined arms being rewarded
  
• they are susceptible to flanking
  

It feels like they gathered all quality of life enhancements that most RTS games need and gave them all to UKF USF and OKW

I wouldn't call it easier, but with the toys new armies have, vanila ones feel... bland, tasteless.
Sov flavor is pic doc asap or GTFO.
Ost, well, OKW can do everything Ost can, but better, cheaper and faster. Tiger and snipers are the only things going for ost over OKW.

They took out a lot of the busy work that comes along with the old factions. I'm having trouble putting it into words besides just listing examples, but look at repairing for all the new factions.

USF get vehicle crews which lets you have fast repairs, OKW get's the auto mech truck and the fastest repair engineer squad, brits get awesome sappers with an upgrade to make them repair lightning fast too.

Compare that to repair speeds for Ost and Sov which are mediocre on their engineers, with the only way to upgrade them is to do the dirty work of getting to vet 2, which is fairly difficult to do if you don't have flamethrowers. On the other side the newer factions can just buy faster repair speeds from the start.

I was lately playing a lot of Brits, since I bought them during pre-launch and didn't use them until some weeks ago. Time and again I miss the old armies, and have been enjoying a lot playing with the soviets. My current load is Soviet Shock, Guard Motor and Partisan, and I'm having a blast with it.

If I'm feeling particularly defiant, I try my Conscript Loadout, with conscript support, NKVD and soviet reserve army. I can't deny that it feels a bit like playing with one arm tied to the back, but the wins come all so much sweeter. And nobody can call you a spammer since you gotta play the hands you're given with these doctrines.

Wehr always makes me tense, though.

Edit: typo and my conscript loadout was wrong. Now it is what it is

Not obsolete but outdated.
I'm still waiting for the veterancy revamp on EFA.

Not obsolete but outdated.
I'm still waiting for the veterancy revamp on EFA.

Its coming.
Right after doctrine revamp and before penal buff.