Light Vehicles need some adjustments

Light Vehicles need some adjustments

Are some states of the units, which can make a comparison:


-Kubel. Need lower your rate capture to normal rate

-Dodge. It is too expensive compared with others, perhaps lower your fuel to 15, so that does not detriment your tech and thus allows more strategies

-ScoutCar222. Has the best chassis than ever before, may need a small increase in MP

+1

I'd take the m8 greyhound also into that list. The m8 is just terrible.

What's wrong with the 222? According to your table it's got the highest hp but the lowest damage output and penetration.

what about 250 and the sdkf? arent they light vehicles too ?

What's wrong with the 222? According to your table it's got the highest hp but the lowest damage output and penetration.

Damage per shot doesn't equal damage per second. I also assume that he only listed the mg damage, however the main gun also shoots at infantry and does damage.

What's wrong with the 222? According to your table it's got the highest hp but the lowest damage output and penetration.

222 has 2 weapons and he posted ONLY the coax.
Autocannon have 40 penetration and 20 dmg per shot

He just gave the raw values without incliding them in DPS, so here is the DPS:

UC:
9,3 FAR
9,4 CLOSE

Kubel:
7 FAR
11,9 CLOSE

M3:
4,1 FAR
16,4 CLOSE

222:
8,3 FAR
24 CLOSE

So, as you can see, not only 222 is one of the cheapest, its also hands down most powerful one and is able to fight independent of other squads thanks to turret. It also has enough AT to reliably damage and in numbers of at least 2 even KILL light tanks.

Thanks, that makes sense. It did seem weird that it has lower penetration than the bren yet it can actually kill a T-70.

I agree on the Kubel.

I think the dodge is in an okay spot. Remember it comes with a free refund button. Also an extra repair squad. You can use a rear echelon to refund it with and use the extra vehicle crew for all sorts of strategies. Can also use riflemen to drive around in a clowncar which is extremely strong.


222 free upgun has always been shit design. I'd really like to see it go back to being like a 45 muni upgrade atleast. I'd prefer that to a generic cost hike on the current 222.

222:
8,3 FAR
24 CLOSE

So, as you can see, not only 222 is one of the cheapest, its also hands down most powerful one and is able to fight independent of other squads thanks to turret. It also has enough AT to reliably damage and in numbers of at least 2 even KILL light tanks.

You didn't mention the 222 Coaxial has absolutely no ability to track with its 5 degree firing cone and no traverse to the left, right, up. This is an issue that still remains which makes it the most iffy unit at engaging infantry, particularly on the move.

Firing Cone: 5
Left: 0
Right: 0
Up: 0



I don't mind a cost increase for the vehicle at all, given its strength, but it better have a working coaxial MG.

You didn't mention the 222 Coaxial has absolutely no ability to track with its 5 degree firing cone and no traverse to the left, right, up. This is an issue that still remains which makes it the most iffy unit at engaging infantry, particularly on the move.

Which you fixed 4 months ago.

I think the dodge is in an okay spot. Remember it comes with a free refund button. Also an extra repair squad. You can use a rear echelon to refund it with and use the extra vehicle crew for all sorts of strategies. Can also use riflemen to drive around in a clowncar which is extremely strong.

All good points. The refund alone helps to recover part of the cost. The Dodge cannot be lowered to 15 easily without making early game against that commander an absolute nightmare.

I would consider lowering Dodge cost if it could not also garrison a squad.

Greyhound needs to be looked at pretty closely.

Kubel needs something if it gets the capping speed reduced. It serves very minimal function after the 5 minute mark and its only real advantage then is the ability to sneak around decapping points just before AT infantry hit the scene.

Universal carrier needs to have better pathing. It is too unreliable to be used in most maps right now. Its ability to carry a squad, but inability to repair until T1 is unlocked makes any pathing mistake extremely painful.

Kubel should cost 5 fuel imo. Personally I don't think it ever should have been given the ability to cap points, but that's not likely to change.

222 is kinda fine right now but I'd prefer it if the autocannon were an upgrade (45-60 munitions) and actually did something against infantry (thinking copy-paste the Luchs autocannon stats). Armour could maybe go to 11. Vehicle cost should then be around 40 or 50 fuel.

Bren Vickers K upgrade needs to be much better. Wasp is mostly fine considering the fact that the UC is going to be a glass-cannon no matter what happens.

Would like to see infantry be able to shoot out of the UC.

Dodge is fine. It's kind of a troll unit imo but it can be really effective in the right hands.

I didn't even know the Greyhound was in the game, or at least that's how it feels. Thing needs help.

remove the m20 utility car's armor upgrade and just give it to the unit tbh

The problem with the greyhound is its cool cost is slower than either m29 or Stuart rushes.

I think greyhound would see more usage if it were 500mpand no fuel since it could open up some strata, but That's a post for another day.

You didn't mention the 222 Coaxial has absolutely no ability to track with its 5 degree firing cone and no traverse to the left, right, up. This is an issue that still remains which makes it the most iffy unit at engaging infantry, particularly on the move.

Firing Cone: 5
Left: 0
Right: 0
Up: 0



I don't mind a cost increase for the vehicle at all, given its strength, but it better have a working coaxial MG.

Well, this explains a lot. I was wondering why the 222 coax gun fails to fire half of the time.

222 has 2 weapons and he posted ONLY the coax.
Autocannon have 40 penetration and 20 dmg per shot

He just gave the raw values without incliding them in DPS, so here is the DPS:

[...]

222:
8,3 FAR
24 CLOSE

So, as you can see, not only 222 is one of the cheapest, its also hands down most powerful one and is able to fight independent of other squads thanks to turret. It also has enough AT to reliably damage and in numbers of at least 2 even KILL light tanks.

And you simply ignored the fact that the 222's MG is completely broken, and basically doesn't fire 99% of the time. The real DPS of the 222 is 1.77 (far) and 4.02 (close) because of that. So yes, it can engage enemy light tanks with ambiguous outcome (unless you appear with numerical superiority), but against infantry even a T-70 will be more effective in any situation, simply because it will actually hit and when it hits it will deal more damage.

By the way, it is pretty dishonest to include a doctrinal unit for one faction, and non-docs for the others, making it seem like one faction doesn't have a comparable option. The M20 in its infantry-support role deals more damage than any of those units, except for the 222 if the coaxial MG would be working correctly...

P.S.: That said, the Dodge could with some change, if only to make it more interesting. Right now the idea of a firing platform doesn't seem that novel, when the Russians had that since the launch of the game. Before anyone cries for buffs though, keep in mind that the 250 halftrack (the short one, that can only take one squad) is even worse off. It costs even more and doesn't deal any damage at all. It is basically worse in every aspect than the Dodge (a feat in and of itself), and yet nobody gives a damn.

222 has 2 weapons and he posted ONLY the coax.
Autocannon have 40 penetration and 20 dmg per shot

He just gave the raw values without incliding them in DPS, so here is the DPS:

UC:
9,3 FAR
9,4 CLOSE

Kubel:
7 FAR
11,9 CLOSE

M3:
4,1 FAR
16,4 CLOSE

222:
8,3 FAR
24 CLOSE

So, as you can see, not only 222 is one of the cheapest, its also hands down most powerful one and is able to fight independent of other squads thanks to turret. It also has enough AT to reliably damage and in numbers of at least 2 even KILL light tanks.

snip

Also forgetting the fact that the 222 has splash damage, with the potential to damage multiple units at the same time(if they are clumped or near cover) and scatter into them on a miss. The dps calculations for the autocannon are too variable, they will be much higher than predicted.

First step that should be done for general balance - fuel cost for any vehicle, even if it will be only 5fu, it is trade for non bleeding on MP and repair option. Pure MP vehicles are bad design.

First step that should be done for general balance - fuel cost for any vehicle, even if it will be only 5fu, it is trade for non bleeding on MP and repair option. Pure MP vehicles are bad design.

Yeah removing the fuel cost on Bren/kubel was dumb.