Volks nerf

They are not. i would say that the okw and the usf are now at the same level in their ability to clear buildings.

OKW: free incendiary nades, powerful CC units at the beginning, insanely cheap infiltration nades.
USF: no free nades, no CC unit since the beginning.

How they are on the same level?

And UKF? They are in a worse spot than OKW. All you have is WASP upgrade which is kinda pointless and inferior to any other flamer upgrade in game.

90 MU for a single panzerschreck on an infantry that cannot be upgraded with anything else is too much? I dont think so..

Where did I say that lol?

Where did I say that lol?

I mean too cheap :-)

I mean too cheap :-)

I agree than 90 munitions isn't cheap for one Panzershreck. That's not the problem. The problem is that the Panzershreck, as it stands right now, allows OKW players to get pretty decent AT for no fuel and no real manpower. This means OKW players don't really have to think very much about dealing with most Allied vehicles, thing as there's a soft-counter readily available.

Ostheer by comparison, must invest significant amounts of manpower in either PaKs or Panzergrenadiers to get early and mid-game AT. And, unlike Volksgrenadiers, Panzergrenadiers with Shrecks are pretty terrible against infantry.

I agree than 90 munitions isn't cheap for one Panzershreck. That's not the problem. The problem is that the Panzershreck, as it stands right now, allows OKW players to get pretty decent AT for no fuel and no real manpower. This means OKW players don't really have to think very much about dealing with most Allied vehicles, thing as there's a soft-counter readily available.

Ostheer by comparison, must invest significant amounts of manpower in either PaKs or Panzergrenadiers to get early and mid-game AT. And, unlike Volksgrenadiers, Panzergrenadiers with Shrecks are pretty terrible against infantry.

Exactly, OKW is a no-brainer when it comes to that, their basic infantry gets Schrecks absolutely natural without any thinking about it involved, just one button, that can be used anywhere on the map, it was different with the ammo penalty, players actually had to make a choice throw a nade or get a Schreck, now OKW got plenty of ammo and nothing else to spent it on.

On some maps you can easily win the whole game with just one unit, and even if you're bothered by Bren wielding Tommies, just get two more Obersquads and you're good.
Volks stomp everything in their way, garrisons are no problem, you can also attack emplacements head on once they gain enough veterancy, blob against Bofors actually works and will melt the Bofors faster than it can thin out the Volks. The best thing about them is that they are pretty much like stronger Osttruppen, OKW can use them in the same way, like really when does OKW has any sort of MP shortage, almost never, you usually drown in MP if you play your units right, and even if Volks get wiped you can just build new ones and they will get vet in no time in the late game.

Especially around top 100, at least in 2v2, everyone just seems to blob them endlessly, and it works, don't even get me started on the maphack car - Stuka combo, another thing that needs to be addressed.

I completly agree with above.
No brainer AT.

You don't have to make any tech decisions, like "do I need handheld AT or maybe faster tech?" "Do I need weapon racks or ambulance or captain right now"? "Do I need Pak40 or PzGrens?" Do I need fast ZiS gun or maybe I can get another maxim before Luchs hits the field?" etc etc.

Even for PzGrens it's not that easy. You have to choose if you want great AI squad or great AT squad, plus you hardly can blob them effectivly.

Superior handheld AT on a most basic squad with no tech decisions is just really, really bad design.

Not to mention their utility. They are hard AT, they can clear garrisons, they don't lose AI power after schreck upgrade, they get insanely fast vet 5, they can deal with CC units thanks to infiltrations nades. In other words, quite often you can win game just by Volks.

Now try to win game just with Cons or Tommies, Grens or even Rifles.

I have epic screen during trol 4v4 game with 9 volks and 600+ fuel float or so
Sure, it was 4v4 but even in 4v4 you can't win by using 9 Cons or 9 Grens.

I agree than 90 munitions isn't cheap for one Panzershreck. That's not the problem. The problem is that the Panzershreck, as it stands right now, allows OKW players to get pretty decent AT for no fuel and no real manpower. This means OKW players don't really have to think very much about dealing with most Allied vehicles, thing as there's a soft-counter readily available.

Ostheer by comparison, must invest significant amounts of manpower in either PaKs or Panzergrenadiers to get early and mid-game AT. And, unlike Volksgrenadiers, Panzergrenadiers with Shrecks are pretty terrible against infantry.

Hmm... when you look at them:

- Pgrens are 320MP spend 120MU on 2 schrecks, lose -50% of their AI while gain lets say 200% AT
- Volks are 250MP spend 90MU on 1 schreck, lose -20% of their AI while gain 100% AT

Sure Pgrens are not much of a use against infantry after the upgrade. But Volks cannot be upgraded with any AI weapon. How much competition they show against double LMG allied squads, or 3 SMG close range units. There was a time when people built Obersoldaten, but after they received double nerf, i would rather build a couple more volks to cut the deal. People just demand nerf on anything OKW throws against them without brain. Just look at this thread... half of the posts is like "remove schreck" without ever thinking the consequences it could cause. This is not balancing imo...

Anyway, if i should suggest something it would be:

• Increase OKW Volks price to 260 MP
  
• Lock Panzerschreck behind medi-truck tech
  
• Add MP40 upgrade locked behind repair-truck tech
  
• Add one-time research upgrade to both Screcks and MP40s (for 100MP+20FU)
  
• Decrease weapon upgrade price from 90 MU to 60 MU

Hmm... when you look at them:

- Pgrens are 320MP spend 120MU on 2 schrecks, lose -50% of their AI while gain lets say 200% AT
- Volks are 250MP spend 90MU on 1 schreck, lose -20% of their AI while gain 100% AT

Sure Pgrens are not much of a use against infantry after the upgrade. But Volks cannot be upgraded with any AI weapon. How much competition they show against double LMG allied squads, or 3 SMG close range units.

Anyway, if i should suggest something it would be:

• Increase OKW Volks price to 260 MP
  
• Lock Panzerschreck behind medi-truck tech
  
• Add MP40 upgrade locked behind repair-truck tech
  
• Add one-time research upgrade to both Screcks and MP40s (for 100MP+20FU)
  
• Decrease weapon upgrade price from 90 MU to 60 MU

The thing is, Pgrens become utterly useless against Infantry once upgraded, they have to close a gap in most situations which will inflict losses.

Volks do 12dmg and are excellent on long range, they don't have to close Gaps, also Volks still got 4 man shooting and causing damage on all ranges, Pgrens got 2 man doing minimal damage on mid or short range, Schrecks tend to kill some units as well, it makes Volks probably better than upgraded Pgrens on short range.

no nerf needed

This.

Its mathematical, giving the most powerful AT weapon for infantry to the basic squad of a faction is a stupid idea, and its worst when you consider the okw armour, it's by no means mediocre.

Remove the panzerschreck upgrade to the volks, and to compensate add an expensive antitank unit with a possible panzerschreck upgrade in the medic headquarters (something like the panzergrenadiers) with AT nades.

The real question isn't do Volks need a nerf, I think it is:

1. Who the hell is Culainn?
2. Why does he feel like he is good enough to tell everyone what's right and wrong?
3. Why does he end every post with his name? Like... what?

Alex

I'd much rather just have Relic revoke the OKW revamp than have to go through all this shit.

Just want to clarify that I don't think Volks are overpowerered per-say. I just think the design is bad.

Just want to clarify that I don't think Volks are overpowerered per-say. I just think the design is bad.

per se *

per se *

lol. I've thought it was per-say for years. Thanks.

when ur seeing a rank 5 volks almost every game thats saying something in itself just take away damage vet from shrek to vehicles

There is a lot of unfair advantages for both axis factions but volks blobs are not among them. Leave as is. Only their vet is broken but the its mangable - dont use light vehicles.

For okw. stuka to t3. All trucks significant cost increase like x1.5

For oh. 222 cost increase bf1 cost encrease, starting mp -60, sniper nerf.

dont use light vehicles.

I guess Allies just shouldn't use light vehicles at all: Tellers one-shot them and volkblob eviscerates them on contact.