Sturmpioneers - Uberpioneers
21 Mar 2016, 00:46 AM
#101
Posts: 424 | Subs: 2
I haven't had any issues as USF countering Sturmpioneers in both 1s and 2s but I can't say for certain for other factions. The repair speed is the only issue I have with them but outside of that *mulling over* They're fine. Better to see duel Sturmpioneers than four volks.
21 Mar 2016, 01:44 AM
#102
Posts: 264
OKW hug buildings because they need to, waiting for your t1 to build to even have a remote chance to get into a building sucks. This games all about who can garrision a building the fastest. Then you just have to wait for t1 nades, flank the 5 maxims in the buildings or the 3 vickers and get in there (who bothers with usf these days when you got maxim spam and crah crah ukf).
If you nerf sturms, then you'll need to give OKW more manpower to compensate. Do you really want the volk blob to get WORSE?!
If you nerf sturms, then you'll need to give OKW more manpower to compensate. Do you really want the volk blob to get WORSE?!
Axis biased, Allied biased. Play every faction before you scream nerf, be a Coh2 player not an "Axis" or "Allied" player.
Playercard: 76561198006693960
Playercard: 76561198006693960
21 Mar 2016, 01:59 AM
#103
Posts: 622
SP are perfectly fine yes repair speed is fast but you rarely see anyone have 2 SP at late game to repair tanks, while UKF usually have 2 sappers as they are not bad at fighting if you put some lmg in their hands, SU i see alot player with 2 CE as 1 with flamethrower 1 with minesweeper, USF while i never see anyone with less than 2 RE with bazooka running around, also USF crew can repair themselves pretty fast except Pershing. so i don't see there is any really SP repair advantage at end really.
21 Mar 2016, 04:03 AM
#104
Posts: 1384
Sturmpios have always been ridiculously good.
It used to be balanced because volksgrenadiers were almost as bad as ostruppen.
The problem was 90% of players were spamming the shitty volksgrenadiers instead of using 2-3 sturmpios so we got a game where sturmpios are cheap and great and volks are above average and still cheap.
It used to be balanced because volksgrenadiers were almost as bad as ostruppen.
The problem was 90% of players were spamming the shitty volksgrenadiers instead of using 2-3 sturmpios so we got a game where sturmpios are cheap and great and volks are above average and still cheap.
21 Mar 2016, 05:37 AM
#105
Posts: 2742
Honestly, if I can hamstring my opponent into making more Sturmpioneers I get to reap the benefits by rolling over an army that's helpless against MGs and vehicles.
Sturmpioneers are a tough unit to handle in the first engagement, that is true. However, you get to see what factions you're up against in the loadscreen so if there's an OKW, maybe hold back your RE or CEs from rushing the front immediately.
It's better against OKW to hold off an assault on the SPs unless you can get them out of position or kite them off a cap zone. As long as you focus fire the SPs the OKW will likely be only left with volks or a kubel, which are easy to overwhelm.
If the OKW follows his Sturmpios with more sturmpios, again, you'll easily overwhelm them as long you don't march in one unit at a time. I think only the Brits might struggle with that war of attrition, but then again, all they need is a Vickers and the sturms are pretty much relegated to defensive operations.
Sturmpioneers are a tough unit to handle in the first engagement, that is true. However, you get to see what factions you're up against in the loadscreen so if there's an OKW, maybe hold back your RE or CEs from rushing the front immediately.
It's better against OKW to hold off an assault on the SPs unless you can get them out of position or kite them off a cap zone. As long as you focus fire the SPs the OKW will likely be only left with volks or a kubel, which are easy to overwhelm.
If the OKW follows his Sturmpios with more sturmpios, again, you'll easily overwhelm them as long you don't march in one unit at a time. I think only the Brits might struggle with that war of attrition, but then again, all they need is a Vickers and the sturms are pretty much relegated to defensive operations.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
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Classic resource points!
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Classic resource points!
21 Mar 2016, 07:41 AM
#106
Posts: 911
if you look closer to the lines, you see that my line almost never goes down while his line drops many times indicating fights he lost vs me, losing models.
Its because OKW base defense actually counts as army value. So those 2cm flak emplacements make up the difference which you see
Imagine my playercard is here
21 Mar 2016, 08:29 AM
#107
Posts: 92
They are pretty tough to face early on but balance better once team weapons roll out & they have more than one target to focus on. I think combat wise they are pretty well balanced but don't really deserve the boost to repairs- especially as OKW has the repair truck.
21 Mar 2016, 12:36 PM
#108
Posts: 264
Asymmetrical balance, if you nerf the sturmpioneer maybe you want to consider giving OKW non-doctrinel machine guns. Because nothing screws them more than fighting maxim spams. The vickers may not stop the grenade from being thrown but it'll chew off 3-4 guys off your squad before it gets thrown.. then all you do is pack up and leave.
Axis biased, Allied biased. Play every faction before you scream nerf, be a Coh2 player not an "Axis" or "Allied" player.
Playercard: 76561198006693960
Playercard: 76561198006693960
22 Mar 2016, 16:13 PM
#109
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
Sturmpios have always been ridiculously good.
It used to be balanced because volksgrenadiers were almost as bad as ostruppen.
The problem was 90% of players were spamming the shitty volksgrenadiers instead of using 2-3 sturmpios so we got a game where sturmpios are cheap and great and volks are above average and still cheap.
cause those 10% players using 2-3 Sturmpios start have been raped by light vehicule, cover play, and MP bleed and we never saw them again in any serious games xD
22 Mar 2016, 23:27 PM
#110
Posts: 1384
cause those 10% players using 2-3 Sturmpios start have been raped by light vehicule, cover play, and MP bleed and we never saw them again in any serious games xD
It's funny because sturmpio DPS is higher than old volks at every range. You could just sit them in green cover and be more effective than volks with higher damage output and lower received accuracy.
23 Mar 2016, 00:30 AM
#111
Posts: 500
It's funny because sturmpio DPS is higher than old volks at every range. You could just sit them in green cover and be more effective than volks with higher damage output and lower received accuracy.
They also used to cost more and do more damage than now.
23 Mar 2016, 09:03 AM
#112
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
It's funny because sturmpio DPS is higher than old volks at every range. You could just sit them in green cover and be more effective than volks with higher damage output and lower received accuracy.
its funny cause they also costed a lot more, high reinforce cost, and popcap, and they have a total of 0 AT possibility
+ if you sit on green cover all day with your out numbered squads, be sure to loose all your map control and eat the floor with the first light vehicule
23 Mar 2016, 09:15 AM
#113
Posts: 587
It's funny because sturmpio DPS is higher than old volks at every range. You could just sit them in green cover and be more effective than volks with higher damage output and lower received accuracy.
It's funny you claim something like this without the slighest back-up.
With sturmpio's RoF being nothing short of abysmal on long range, i am sure you are wrong.
Being bad at the game isn't something balance patches can fix.
24 Mar 2016, 20:02 PM
#114
Posts: 1384
It's funny you claim something like this without the slighest back-up.
Check out the DPS charts.
Sturms
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/assault_pioneer_mp44_smg_mp
Volks
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/volksgrenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp
24 Mar 2016, 20:05 PM
#115
Posts: 297
Check out the DPS charts. Even at max range sturm pios do 1.5 DPS each versus volks 1.2 DPS.
Sturms
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/assault_pioneer_mp44_smg_mp';
Volks
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/volksgrenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp
sturm one has some error
24 Mar 2016, 20:06 PM
#116
Posts: 1384
24 Mar 2016, 20:07 PM
#117
Posts: 1384
shows clearly that volks do 1.5 at max range while sturms do 1.2 since close to mid range
My bad, mixed up long range numbers. Mid range favours sturms though.
4 man vs 5 man might make a bit of difference but not much.
24 Mar 2016, 20:07 PM
#118
Posts: 297
Fixed it.
welp, here shows that sturm do 1.2 at medium large range while volks only do 1.5 on max range
24 Mar 2016, 21:41 PM
#119
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Check out the DPS charts.Even at max range sturm pios do 1.5 DPS each versus volks 1.2 DPS.
Sturms
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/assault_pioneer_mp44_smg_mp
Volks
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/volksgrenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp
http://stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=assault_pioneer_mp44_smg_mp
http://stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=volksgrenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp
or
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOYMDi_XR7rILsk6HbAZqGihsk22t-45C_6NbQEP-m0/edit#gid=0
SP: 0 5 10 15 20 25 30 35
SP: 15.89 14.53 10.84 7.64 4.87 2.47 1.21 1.21
Vo: 4.55 4.00 3.46 3.03 2.70 2.42 2.07 1.80
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
25 Mar 2016, 01:03 AM
#120
Posts: 1384
Outdated.Nevermind, didn't realize we were talking about old SP/Volks. Still, bad idea to rely only on SP to kill light vehicles as you were gonna get pushed out of cover and chased on retreat.
http://stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=assault_pioneer_mp44_smg_mp
http://stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=volksgrenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp
or
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOYMDi_XR7rILsk6HbAZqGihsk22t-45C_6NbQEP-m0/edit#gid=0
SP: 0 5 10 15 20 25 30 35
SP: 15.89 14.53 10.84 7.64 4.87 2.47 1.21 1.21
Vo: 4.55 4.00 3.46 3.03 2.70 2.42 2.07 1.80
The volks buff certainly equalizes it a bit more in the mid range (20-25 range).
I'm not saying ONLY build SP. I just think the ratio of SP to volks works better with 2-3 sturms and 1-2 volks rather than 1 sturm and 4 volks. Granted, I also favour lots of light vehicle play and lots of mines while most people seem to prefer lots of panzerschrecks and assault grenades.
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