Sturmpioneers - Uberpioneers

Maybe I don't understand something, but why top-engineer unit (fastest reapair speed + repair upgrade) is also such a good close and middle combat unit, which is able in T0 and works, as first unit of OKW? Isn't that too much for just one "engineer" unit?

I know, that it cost a lot (300 MP), but it is also questionable point - soviet sturms costs 390 MP (and 2 CP doctrine), and they are only better, than sturmpios in close, and lose in mid-combat, but they can't build, repair put medboxes and do a lot of other stuff. Why sturmpios are so universal!?

Engineers of all other factions are 10 times worse, they usualy can't into effective combat, like soviet or ostheer engineers, rear echelons are totally broken and only able to carry zooks and lose them, nobody cares, that "Volley fire" doesn't work right. Only UK's engieers can be same good, as OKW's, but even they need for that UK's T3, side upgrade and 70 muni on repair pack + 1 MG + armor. OKW engineers are dangerous from the very start, and that's not normal.

I suggest to save their cool repair abilities, but cut their firepower by giving them another guns from start. Maybe MP-41 (should be little better, than loosy MP-40), maybe MKb 42. with way lesser accuracy on them... I think it's possible to find some options here.

And also I suggest to give to Sturmpios upgrade, which will be able after T1. With that upgrade they will get back their STGs, but will lose all abilities to repair and build and will turn into normal close-mid combat unit. And maybe - give them HP boost with upgrade, for to make them more effective in that.

So, OKW will be free to choose between engineer unit and close combat unit. It's really more, than all other factions have.

P.S. Why not to give to ALL engineers of all factions upgrade, which will boost their repair abilities? Because Ostheer, Soviet and US engieers are veeeeery slow in repairing. In late that slowness make hurt you hard.

Could you pls just stfu and stop open threads about "OP" units?

I mean you dont even play this game. how many games did u finish ? 10? 15?

Sturmpioneers are fine in their current state and it is just a l2p issue why you cant handle them.

Could you pls just stfu and stop open threads about "OP" units?

I mean you dont even play this game. how many games did u finish ? 10? 15?

Sturmpioneers are fine in their current state and it is just a l2p issue why you cant handle them.

Where I said, that "I can't handle with OP sturmpioneers"? Quote that from me, please! If you won't, then I suggest you to stfu. Seems like playing as axis too much really kills your brain cells, that people even loosing ability to read...

Hello.

If i remember correctly, the utility package already increase repair time of all engi, so i guess your suggestion is already fulfilled.

You also made a valid comparison with shocks but you ahve to notice that soviet shocks, while fullfiling a similar combat role are a milion times more resistant than sturmpioneers (2 more mordels and +0.5 armor)

Comparing Sturm and other eng squads is difficult, the sturm are less an engineer squad and more a combat squad that happen to have a repair/plant mine ability.
Other engineers have far more utility and build real things and also happen to be extremely cheap compared to the sturm.
I think it is an honest bargain after all.
Your suggestion to cut the firepower and add an upgrade is interesting but it has to come with a decrease of the price...balanced with a munition price later. You dont have the same unit anymore.
I like the way it is now.

Kozokus.

Don't make anymore posts until you play 100 more games... Then, if you have a problem with something, come back and make a nice thoughtful post about it.

Sturmpioneers are fine. Pioneers were actually quite elite infantry units in the German army. In game, they start out quite potent and on-par with other units but sturmpioneers don't scale as well as actual combat troops until they get up to vet 4 and 5; which they rarely do.

Hello.

You also made a valid comparison with shocks but you ahve to notice that soviet shocks, while fullfiling a similar combat role are a milion times more resistant than sturmpioneers (2 more mordels and +0.5 armor)

Comparing Sturm and other eng squads is difficult, the sturm are less an engineer squad and more a combat squad that happen to have a repair/plant mine ability.
Other engineers have far more utility and build real things and also happen to be extremely cheap compared to the sturm.
I think it is an honest bargain after all.
Your suggestion to cut the firepower and add an upgrade is interesting but it has to come with a decrease of the price...balanced with a munition price later. You dont have the same unit anymore.
I like the way it is now.

Kozokus.

So, I didn't compare them complitely with shocks, of course they are close-combat units at all with armor and PPSHs... So, obviously they are better, and it is good. But still, Sturmpios are acting nice in close and middle combat.

And I think it's ok to compare sturms with other engineers, because they are not just simple "combat squad with "occasionaly" engineer skills" - they are best engineers in game. Fast repair even without upgrade, pretty same mines as soviet, sweeper (which you can also toggle, no other engineers can do same, and thats unfair too).

You have to admit, that even USF doctrinal "Combat Engineers" are not so badass, as Sturmpios. And Combat Engineers are not only doctrinal, but also cost 280 MP - only 20 MP lesser, than Sturmpios, but how much times more powerfull Pios in compare to Engineers, and is it proportional to their prices diferences? I think no.

I just don't like, that OKW, which is already full of TOP-Units, have TOP engineers with very good combat abilites in same time. Let them choose between engineers and combats, because it's ridiculous, that OKW have the best engineers, the best starting unit and good combat unit in one face, while USF have... rear echelons at start with broken Volley and 0% accuracy. Other faction's engineers at start are not better, and only Tommy with rifleteabags at start can outfight Pios.

Fan boy mode engaged misscommissar as always
The upgrade for the vanilla faction don't give them repair speed and there's another 8 thread about this as much as I would like to be implemented Lelic don't listen
SP are fine 4 man 300 mp 9 pop cap a worse PG and PG already lose to bar rifle

Maybe I don't understand something

I agree with you.

I agree with you.

Done close topic

I agree with you.

Done close topic

Guys, you came for to troll, of for to discuss? If you gonna troll, then don't cry to moderators then, that "someone" insulting you, ok?

Well what are you suggesting is a straight nerf with nothing to gain for a faction
I could do this for every faction (no ra for rifleman ,ostheer mg to tier 1 ,maxim nerf set up time, no more brace for Brits )
Would I be called troll ?
Yes obviously and all would say it's l2p
If you go for nerf and no buff if the unit is not over performing that's make you a troll or a fanboy and your opinion should not be valued

Well what are you suggesting is a straight nerf with nothing to gain for a faction
I could do this for every faction (no ra for rifleman ,ostheer mg to tier 1 ,maxim nerf set up time, no more brace for Brits )

Surprise-surprise, sometime ago they "straightly" nerfed some allies units, without any gain. ISU was best example of how good once unit was straightly nerfed because of unstopable whine of axis. So, I guess we have a right to ask a straight nerf of some axis units too.

And what you wanna gain for OKW? They need something more than they have now? OK, they need artillery,so I always ask - give to OKW Hummels already, instead of useless Flamenhetzer. Im fair in that, but with sturmpioneers - they should be just straightly nerfed, without any gain.

Again - it is TOP engineer unit, which is also TOP starting unit, which is also combat unit, that can outfight a lot of other real combats, like Conscripts. I don't think, that it is right to give to ANY faction combo of best engineer+nice combat abilites. Let there be something 1 - engineering or fighting. Soviet engineers can't into fight, without flamers, like Ostheer and USF. Rears can't into fight at all and UK's engineers are able to fight only with bunch of upgrades.

Surprise-surprise, sometime ago they "straightly" nerfed some allies units, without any gain. ISU was best example of how good once unit was straightly nerfed because of unstopable whine of axis. So, I guess we have a right to ask a straight nerf of some axis units too.

And what you wanna gain for OKW? They need something more than they have now? OK, they need artillery,so I always ask - give to OKW Hummels already, instead of useless Flamenhetzer. Im fair in that, but with sturmpioneers - they should be just straightly nerfed, without any gain.

Again - it is TOP engineer unit, which is also TOP starting unit, which is also combat unit, that can outfight a lot of other real combats, like Conscripts. I don't think, that it is right to give to ANY faction combo of best engineer+nice combat abilites. Let there be something 1 - engineering or fighting. Soviet engineers can't into fight, without flamers, like Ostheer and USF. Rears can't into fight at all and UK's engineers are able to fight only with bunch of upgrades.

Seems like you look only at half post sturm are 9 pop cap almost 2 eng squad and yes the unit they nerfed were overpeforming
Ps: they lose to rifle and is
Edit: "whine of axis" not player from this statement alone I understand you are a hard core fanboy of ally

Seems like you look only at half post sturm are 9 pop cap almost 2 eng squad and yes the unit they nerfed were overpeforming
Ps: they lose to rifle and is

So, 9 pop cap can be excuse for all those super-qualities, that Sturmpios have? It's not enough, actually.

I don't ask to nerf their "engineer" abilities - let them repair, build and plant fast, ok. For engineers with 2 times bigger pop cap it will be very right, but don't let them combine perfect engineer and good combat skills. If you want close combat units for OKW - ok, buy STGs for Sturmpios, say goodbye to engineer skills and let them fight. What's wrong with that? It's more, than any faction will have! For expample, I can't buy for my soviet engineers PPS-43 instead of Mosins and move them into combat without reapir/mine abilities (and I would like to). OKW will have that choise, that all factions haven't.

So, 9 pop cap can be excuse for all those super-qualities, that Sturmpios have? It's not enough, actually.

I don't ask to nerf their "engineer" abilities - let them repair, build and plant fast, ok. For engineers with 2 times bigger pop cap it will be very right, but don't let them combine perfect engineer and good combat skills. If you want close combat units for OKW - ok, buy STGs for Sturmpios, say goodbye to engineer skills and let them fight. What's wrong with that? It's more, than any faction will have! For expample, I can't buy for my soviet engineers PPS-43 instead of Mosins and move them into combat without reapir/mine abilities (and I would like to). OKW will have that choise, that all factions haven't.

Wow the SP can build so much stuff like ......(and faster)
SP cost 1.5 a eng and po cap 1.5 a eng and perform 1.5

Wow the SP can build so much stuff like ......(and faster)

Like forced barbed wire, annyoing thing acutally. And they can build bunkers, trenches and AA 2cm with Defensive doctrine - would like to have that doctrine for USSR for to teach their engineers to dig MG bunkers. (And yea, I know that 2cm AA suck, don't remind me.)

And of course, they only repair faster, not build. But still, in late game speed of repair of your tanks can be veery important. Its very funny to see, how my 2 soviet engineers working hard and long for to repair my IS-2 or ISU, when OKW's pioneers repairs KT or JT like they are modern engineers from MIT.

And they perform not like "1.5 eng", but like 3-4 eng. Don't forget, that they fight 3-4 times better, than any other engineers without upgrades.

Like forced barbed wire, annyoing thing acutally. And they can build bunkers, trenches and AA 2cm with Defensive doctrine - would like to have that doctrine for USSR for to teach their engineers to dig MG bunkers. (And yea, I know that 2cm AA suck, don't remind me.)

And of course, they only repair faster, not build. But still, in late game speed of repair of your tanks can be veery important. Its very funny to see, how my 2 soviet engineers working hard and long for to repair my IS-2 or ISU, when OKW's pioneers repairs KT or JT like they are modern engineers from MIT.

And they perform not like "1.5 eng", but like 3-4 eng. Don't forget, that they fight 3-4 times better, than any other engineers without upgrades.

They can't build bunker (you only play ally is obvious you don't know) and the aa emplacement Is a joke at least you know and to put the wire it takes 2 time the normal one and you can destroy it just fine (aprt for LV)
3-4 are you joking put 2 Royal eng vs 1 sturm

their repairspeed is fine for their cost.

they cost a lot to reinforce

they dont scale well

they die quite fast

playercard pls