M1931 B-4 Howitzer - Let's do something about it!

Ok, here is a point:

Sometime ago, B-4 was cool arty. More than that - when OKW just came into war B-4 was only (and ONLY) tool, which could stop KTs and JTs. If you remember, they were absolutely unstopable in those times.

But, someone "mindful" decided, that "Precision shot" is OP, or something like that and left B-4 (and ML-20) without it. And if for ML-20 that was compensated by few more salvos in Vet1 (and it's OK), B-4 was left without any compensation. Right now B-4 is "little better than Sexton" artillery. That is a shame.

I suggest to give back Vet 1 ability "Precision shot" to B-4, because without it it's just throwing 600 MP and entire doctrine in nothing. It has awfull accuracy and only with 9 or 10 Luck in your SPECIAL you can hope, that it will hit requiering target. With that ability back, B-4 will be reliable 600MP investment, as it should be.

And now some "axis-players" will come here and say: "No, don't give to B-4 that ability, because USSR player will just camp with B-4 and snipe out my units!!!". It's just predictible.

Here is an answer to you, my dear axisplayer - Stuka Dive Bomb. Don't you think, that it is quiet similar to old B-4's "Precision shot"?

Same huge bomb falling in 1 very accuracnt point and causing huge damage to everything in area. Don't you think, that it is hypocrisy to say: "Precison shot is OP", but "Dive bomb is OK, don't touch it"? For me it is obvious hypocrisy.

You could say that "Dive Bomb costs 160 Ammo, so it's ok". Allright, then that "Precision shot" costs 600 MP (for unit to do it), some time for to get Vet 1 and also 90 muni per each shot, cos if you remember, that was a price for that ability - 90 muni. And don't forget, you can always lose that 600 MP, time you spent on veterancy and lose that ability, while you can lose nothing by just calling 160 ammo airstrike! Ju.87, which dropes that bomb is unvuerable to all posible AA, so - you lose nothing.

And yes - it's not harder to dodge B-4 round, than Stuka bomb, cos B-4 shots pretty loudly. Loud enogh for to hear it and start to move vunerable to strike units.

It's OK, Pretty strong on maps like Trois Ponts and hamlet.

This type of highly biased and misinformed opening posts reminds me a lot of these weird elite news-bulletins threads from the official forums from a while back.

All howitzers cost too much manpower

This type of highly biased misinformed posts reminds me a lot of these weird elite news-bulletins threads from the official forums a while back.

Well, I still would like to write in that style, I liked it

And don't you agree, that B-4 need to get "Precision shot" back? How often you see it in games using by your mates or enemies? And how often they can be called useful, with their horrible random accuracy?

You just wrote it in that style. Please do not though, I do not want that guy to be summoned into the CoH2.org forums.

B4 shouldn't get precision shot back. All howitzers simply cost too much MP. That's all.

All howitzers cost too much manpower

B4 shouldn't get precision shot back. All howitzers simply cost too much MP. That's all.

Guys, that's wrong way of balancing. What for we need cheap, but useless units? Don't we have Sexton right on that position already with QF 25s? They are cheap/free but 100% useless, let's not make more such units, please!

600 MP is huge price, of course, but it wouldn't be such big, if B-4 will become useful again. Getting "Precision shot" back can make B-4 useful (but not OP) back again! Everything is simple, and you just want to ruin another "possbile good unit" in pit of cheapness and uselesness...

And I forgot 1 important thing in main post - B-4's traverse speed is such awful... They should make it little faster maybe.

Make it so it can shoot with 3 shells/320dmg each.

I don't see any difference between precision shot and for example PzWerfer or Stuka zu Fuss wipes or Stuka dive bomb. You hear the sound, you don't know where excatly it will land, it can wipe everything, so what's the difference?

I rememeber huge whines about shooting at Med Truck after retreat. How is that different from shooting at med truck/ambulance with Werfer/Calliope/Stuka?

Sure, B4 is more powerful but if so, presicion shot could do 50% damage of normal barrage.

And it'll be quicker and easier to get another howitzer in case it's been destroyed.

Make it so it can shoot with 3 shells/320dmg each.

I don't see any difference between precision shot and for example PzWerfer or Stuka zu Fuss wipe or Stuka dive bomb.

Exlpain me the difference? Sure, B4 is more powerful but if so, presicion shot could do 50% damage of normal barrage.

Actually, Stuka Dive Bomb is more powerfull, that B-4 shot. It has 3-4 times bigger AoE (causes huge infantry losses). But... its hard to compare power of such Howitzer and rocket artillery, like Wuhrframmen of Werfer. Rockets cover huge area but dealing low damage per one charge, and B-4 shooting 1 powerfull shell which should hit only 1 target - no area cover.

And 3 shels shooting is intresting, but unrealistic idea. B-4 should reload long, cos it's not such easy to load 203mm shell. It will be a joke to see 3 fast shooting shels with B-4.

And it'll be quicker and easier to get another

Yeah I guess that is why they were priced that much in the first place.


But still, 600 MP is too much IMO.

Make all howizers cost 450mp-45 fuel

Not too big MP investment and they are worth of fuel, excluding B4 which is a piece of shit

Folks, problem is not about "it worth more than do". In some part - maybe, but don't you think, that B-4 WITH Precision shot will cost 600 MP? It will be powerfull enough for that, actually.

And, better don't think about "how to make price lesser" on weak units - its veeery bad way of balancing. Better thing about "how to make unit worth that price it has already!". Don't nerf pirce - buff qualities!

Bring us back precision strike! It does not need to deal 640dmg. 320 for precision and 640 for barrage would be fine.

Or 3x320dmg...

More RoF, i still like to play Russian rulette with my enemy

I think the vet 1 ability would be to shoot a 203 mm Flare to be more inline with the soviet army.

But, a more simple solution would make the vet 1 give the B1 more durability or and incendiary after-effect to the shell.

I think the vet 1 ability would be to shoot a 203 mm Flare to be more inline with the soviet army.

But, a more simple solution would make the vet 1 give the B1 more durability or and incendiary after-effect to the shell.

another problem solved thanks to flares

It's much better for balance and gameplay experience for howitzers to be made more attractive by reducing MP cost (and maybe adding a token fuel cost) than it is to re-add an ability that has minimal counterplay and can be devastating. It's just super cheesey to get a massive wipe on a retreat point or get a tank sniped from across the map for only 90 Muni - yes you can hear it but in most games its simply just too micro taxing and unfun to play against.

"Cheap but useless" isn't great but cost IS one of the major hurdles that howies have to being useful. Maybe slightly reduce scatter too (I find that B4 in particular has too much scatter for my taste). I do really like Australian's idea of 3 shots and think that's the best compromise - B4 sucks because it's 1 shot is "all or nothing" and more often than not its nothing. At least with 3 shots you have more chances and less damage means less cheesy tank sniping, plus my personal preference is for using howitzers as area denial and saturation fire.

It's much better for balance and gameplay experience for howitzers to be made more attractive by reducing MP cost (and maybe adding a token fuel cost) than it is to re-add an ability that has minimal counterplay and can be devastating. It's just super cheesey to get a massive wipe on a retreat point or get a tank sniped from across the map for only 90 Muni - yes you can hear it but in most games its simply just too micro taxing and unfun to play against.

"Cheap but useless" isn't great but cost IS one of the major hurdles that howies have to being useful. Maybe slightly reduce scatter too (I find that B4 in particular has too much scatter for my taste). I do really like Australian's idea of 3 shots and think that's the best compromise - B4 sucks because it's 1 shot is "all or nothing" and more often than not its nothing. At least with 3 shots you have more chances and less damage means less cheesy tank sniping, plus my personal preference is for using howitzers as area denial and saturation fire.

Reducing MP cost won't make it better. Again - look at QF 25 poudners. They are not just cheap, they a free. Do that fact make QFs more attractive for you? I guess not, because they just can't hit target with their -1488% accuracy. Same goes for Sexton, which actually costs something. And now you suggest to do same for all other howitzers. "Let's not buff, but make price lower". It works IRL, when you are buisunessman and want to make your shit more attractive to people without making it better, but doesn't work in CoH2, where people need not cheap trash, but normal priced combat units.

But still, I can agree, that if Relic won't find any reasonable way to buff artillery and don't touch "artilleryhaters", then let them cut of prices... Better that than nothing.

And idea of 3 shots in B-4 could be great, but... It would be really strange. I would like to have ol' good B-4 puncher back with 1 powerfull shot and ability to use that shot right on target. It worked good, everyone was happy! And they ruined it... just like ISU...

All howitzers cost too much manpower

+1 Now that you can't build them inside your base that is in fact true.