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M-42 vs other light AT.

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Australian Magic
16 Mar 2016, 12:40 PM
#1
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

So... I could not belive that M42, which is still AT gun, can be worse AT than for example HMG.

Here are results. Look at timer. How long it takes to kill 222 or Puma for HMG42, M-42, dshk or Guards?

DSHK vs 222 (AP rounds of course) 6seconds.



HMG42 (AP) vs 222 6seconds.



Guards vs 222 17 seconds.



M-42 vs 222 13 seconds :foreveralone:



But here is the cherry.

HMG42 vs Puma 16 seconds.



M-42 vs Puma 16 seconds, same as machine gun :foreveralone:



Solution? I have few on my mind.

Increase rate of fire.
Make it non-doc T1 (put KV2 in urban and defensive tactics).
Remove it completly and introduce BS3
Canister shells.
Anyfuckingthing.

I could go for HMG42/M-42 vs M20 or HT but I did not want to torture this poor M-42
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Katitof
16 Mar 2016, 12:47 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Or just replace it with guards.

If there needs to be light AT, make it useful by replacing it with something that works at least.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Firesparks
16 Mar 2016, 12:52 PM
#3
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

how long does it take for a zis to kill a 222?

the m-42 is crap, but it make sense for a mg to be able to murder vehicle faster if you can penetration it.


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Aerohank
16 Mar 2016, 12:58 PM
#4
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

M-42 light AT gun is fine. It does what it is supposed to do.
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Katitof
16 Mar 2016, 12:59 PM
#5
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Mar 2016, 12:52 PMFiresparks
how long does it take for a zis to kill a 222?

About 5-6 seconds.

the m-42 is crap, but it make sense for a mg to be able to murder vehicle faster if you can penetration it.

Yeah, but the problem starts when that AT gun can't kill its intended targets in a reasonable time, arrives too late to be relevant(you can go T1 and T2 before 2CP) and getting 2 of them is much more expensive mp and pop cap-wise then just getting proper, stock ATG.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Waegukin
16 Mar 2016, 13:03 PM
#6
avatar of Waegukin

Posts: 609

They really should just make the damn thing basically a slower firing, longer range T70 cannon.
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Katitof
16 Mar 2016, 13:04 PM
#7
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Mar 2016, 13:03 PMWaegukin
They really should just make the damn thing basically a slower firing, longer range T70 cannon.

That wouldn't even be historically inaccurate as it was used versus infantry as well, had special shells for that.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Australian Magic
16 Mar 2016, 13:08 PM
#8
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Point is, HMGs lose their AT capabilities after 10-12mins, just like M-42 so there is almost no point to pick M-42. Better get DSHK which can suppress and fight light vehicles or steal 42.
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Obersoldat
16 Mar 2016, 13:09 PM
#9
avatar of Obersoldat

Posts: 393

MG42 AP rounds kill bren carriers faster than any AT gun in the game too

That being said M42 = pudding
The only reason COH2 is still around, is because it's preserved by salt.
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SkysTheLimit
16 Mar 2016, 13:17 PM
#10
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Mar 2016, 12:58 PMAerohank
M-42 light AT gun is fine. It does what it is supposed to do.


Yeah, but it does it worse than a stock T0 mg. It's not fine at all, it's a total waste.
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DustBucket
16 Mar 2016, 13:26 PM
#11
avatar of DustBucket

Posts: 114

what about giving it the ability to garrison and retreat?
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Katitof
16 Mar 2016, 13:28 PM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Mar 2016, 13:26 PMDustBucket
what about giving it the ability to garrison and retreat?

Then we'd have overpriced, underperforming, useless AT gun that can garrison and retreat.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Osinyagov
16 Mar 2016, 13:33 PM
#13
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1389 | Subs: 1

Make M-42 somewhat T-70's gun without T-70? With price change*

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alliesalliesThread with UI suggestions for live version of the gameaxisaxis

sovietssovietsThread with adjusted commander portraitsostheerostheer
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Aerohank
16 Mar 2016, 13:34 PM
#14
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Mar 2016, 13:17 PMSkysTheLimit


Yeah, but it does it worse than a stock T0 mg. It's not fine at all, it's a total waste.


It does not do it worse. To damage or kill a light vehicle with a machine gun you need to bait it in. You can't activate AP round while you are moving and enemies have plenty of time to dodge the attack if you are using the MG offensively. Your AP round will then go on cooldown and you will have to fall back.

Meanwhile, you can A-move the M42 light AT gun with your units and deter enemy light vehicles quite easily.

The M42 light AT-gun is fine. It does what it is supposed to do and that is the following: Provide light AT support to T1 builds.

@Katitof
Does a ZIS3 kill tanks better? Yes. Obviously. But if you tech both T1 and T2 to counter enemy light vehicles then you give away the initiative and mapcontrol to your opponent as you now have invested lots of manpower and time into getting AT.
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Crecer13
16 Mar 2016, 13:44 PM
#15
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

replace the M42 to BS-3
or increase the damage, penetration, add ability: case-shot
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DustBucket
16 Mar 2016, 13:44 PM
#16
avatar of DustBucket

Posts: 114

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Mar 2016, 13:28 PMKatitof

Then we'd have overpriced, underperforming, useless AT gun that can garrison and retreat.


more utility would make it less useless. maybe you are right about the retreat, doesn't add too much. But i think the garrison might give it an interesting ability.
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Katitof
16 Mar 2016, 13:53 PM
#17
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Mar 2016, 13:44 PMDustBucket


more utility would make it less useless. maybe you are right about the retreat, doesn't add too much. But i think the garrison might give it an interesting ability.


Conscripts have merge utility.
They still can't engage any other infantry properly.

Utility doesn't win engagements.

Good stats for the price in relation to other units makes the unit useful, not gimmicks.

Every single gimmick based unit falls out of meta instantly for not being reliable enough.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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DustBucket
16 Mar 2016, 14:09 PM
#18
avatar of DustBucket

Posts: 114

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Mar 2016, 13:53 PMKatitof


Conscripts have merge utility.
They still can't engage any other infantry properly.

Utility doesn't win engagements.

Good stats for the price in relation to other units makes the unit useful, not gimmicks.

Every single gimmick based unit falls out of meta instantly for not being reliable enough.


look man i know very well that i am a casual player and that you have obviously sunk way more time into this game than i ever have or will, but garrisoning troops isn't solely a utility ability it allows your troops to fight with more protection.
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kitekaze
16 Mar 2016, 14:17 PM
#19
avatar of kitekaze

Posts: 378

M42 vs Zis3

Damage 80 vs 160(50%)
Penetrate (Long) 60 vs 180 (33%, and worse than at ptrs lol)
Reload 2.625 vs 4.425 (169%)
Cost 200 vs 300(67%)
Total: only 37% effectiveness compare to Zis

Of course there are other factor such as population, tax rate, timing... But that's only make M42 worse.

At least, damage has to be 120 and long range penetration should be 100 to restore its effectiveness.
Tired of Ostheer? Try Kampfgruppen Lehr mod.

Revival of Panzer Elite in Company of Heroes 2.
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Aerohank
16 Mar 2016, 14:22 PM
#20
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Mar 2016, 14:09 PMDustBucket


look man i know very well that i am a casual player and that you have obviously sunk way more time into this game than i ever have or will, but garrisoning troops isn't solely a utility ability it allows your troops to fight with more protection.


Actually, Katitof only sinks time into posting on the forums. He has little actual gameplay experience. This is why he knows the stats of the M42 light AT gun and how it compares to a ZIS3, but can't see the potential of the unit in the actual game.
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