Some things never change

All of this relic DLC is ridiculous. Now its obvious that the only time Relic can be bothered to make balance changes is when they're releasing commanders.

Pull the clock back to when the game first came out in July. Considering all of the bugs in the game and the lack of maps with the 2 arguably best designed factions, you know the game was perfectly fine, people didn't complain too much about it. It was still a perfectly fine game.

Then all of a sudden, 3-4 months later, Relic released Mechanised assault and Soviet Windustry that basically broke the game. People after paying some $50-$100 for the base game (depends if you bought it with SEGA or THQ) were horrified that after paying for an "AAA game" they would have to fork out more money as if it was a F2P game.

The result was that the game population plummeted by 75%. You can see it here. Look at the data from June to October 2013. As a result relic didn't try this again and only really released commanders with OKW and USF coming out - because you know, they didn't try the P2W/F2P kind of system with the "AAA game".

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Fast forwards to now and they're only patching the game whenever they release a new commander. Cynically they are only releasing new commanders for USF, UKF and OKW because ppl have to buy those factions. If you want commanders for Soviets and Wehr, forget it, Relic aren't interested, they just want microtransactions.

Moreover, they did exactly the same thing as Sov Industry which almost killed the game back then where they released the commander in a broken state, and after a month patch it to an at best "acceptable" state.
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Also, with the ridiculous number of bugs in the game, you think relic would actually detect a lot of bugs in their QA, esp with something simple like weapon spawn. To their credit, they patched it quickly, but these are bugs that should have never made it through QA.

I'm not insisting that coding is easy at all but the quality of the work is pretty shoddy considering how much money individual players throw at the game. All of this would be fine if they didn't do the stupid F2P/P2W bs that they do.

Games like World of Tanks, League of legends and CS Go make money through quality not quantity of items. Especially CS Go where barely anything has changed from the base game especially from release, but they still make a lot of money from the game. Relic should really learn from this rather than milk their playerbase.
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So what has changed in the game/devs ever since the bad old Sov Industry days? Not much really, in fact, it seems like its getting worse.

CS:GO makes money off of cases, quantity to the utmost extreme.

I tried to add up the cost of if a new player wanted to buy CoH2 now and include all micro Transactions and I gave up at something like $500+.

$143 to unlock all factions and single player content.

The costs of the commanders whilst you can unlock them through playing (random drops I know are changing and I am glad) but how can you lock commanders behind essentially a pay wall and make this an E-Sport game.

I've said it till I'm blue in the face. Base factions should be free to play. All other factions should be paid.

Their new alpha for CoH2 currancy shows they are allowing players more options to buy commanders but its coming rather late. Still better than what they have now but people need to calm down about this and let the alpha continue to work.


Now your other topic on bugs is a good one. Relics QA team needs to be fired or need a hard shaking. Don't get me wrong, coh2 is a deep game that can have many knock off effects but most of these issue we find can come about playing a game with each faction and releasing. Patches SHOULD be delayed if there are large issues and should be tested a week before actual release like we have in the past.

I've said it till I'm blue in the face. Base factions should be free to play. All other factions should be paid.

Their new alpha for CoH2 currancy shows they are allowing players more options to buy commanders but its coming rather late. Still better than what they have now but people need to calm down about this and let the alpha continue to work.


Now your other topic on bugs is a good one. Relics QA team needs to be fired or need a hard shaking. Don't get me wrong, coh2 is a deep game that can have many knock off effects but most of these issue we find can come about playing a game with each faction and releasing. Patches SHOULD be delayed if there are large issues and should be tested a week before actual release like we have in the past.

If they make the base Armies free I want all WFA and British commanders released up to that point as compensation, I can't just fork over a hundred bucks at a whim just because I think I'm a loyal fan, either that or Relic totally lose me as a fan and customer and I won't even care if they fix the game in some point in time after that. And not threatening anybody with anything. I just want them to know I'm not a schmuck with which they can fuck around with, and so is most of their community I believe.

Looking at the player count statistics, it appears people are finally recognizing a beaten dead horse when they see one. RIP Lelic, may you never have you plague this mortal plain with your DLC nonsense and inability to patch.

There is nothing quality about World of Tanks.

If they make the base Armies free I want all WFA and British commanders released up to that point as compensation, I can't just fork over a hundred bucks at a whim just because I think I'm a loyal fan, either that or Relic totally lose me as a fan and customer and I won't even care if they fix the game in some point in time after that. And not threatening anybody with anything. I just want them to know I'm not a schmuck with which they can fuck around with, and so is most of their community I believe.

Saying that you are entitled to compensation isn't very fair as you payed for their services (patches, freeDLC (maps, MLNW commanders, skins, and new bullitins). Server upkeep isnt cheap nor is producing new models for WFA and Brits. They aren't "fucking around with" you, making the base game free 2 play (solvs, and wher) allows for a larger community, a more inclusive community, and a gateway to get new people to add to balance discussion.

You can go on all day about the value proposition of a video game but honestly its all about where you stand financially. Making the base factions wouldn't effect you in any way other. It would be as if relic made CoH3 and made the base factions the same as coh2 but made them free 2 play. Its not an attack on you the consumer its simply changing their business model.

much to read here, but i keep it short for easy understanding.

https://youtu.be/lTHCwU9rUdY?t=43s

Yeah the DLC system is really messed up. Paying more than 100$ to have full multiplayer access is ridiculous. The steam store page of coh2 is a mess aswell. If I was a new player, I would be overwhelmed by the amount of DLC and had no idea what to buy. Microtransactions ontop of a full priced game is just greedy.

Make the base game free to play. Tidy up the steam store page. That would be a start. CS:GO costs 10 bucks for full access, just consmetics are DLC and they make a shit ton of money with it.

Yeah the DLC system is really messed up. Paying more than 100$ to have full multiplayer access is ridiculous. The steam store page of coh2 is a mess aswell. If I was a new player, I would be overwhelmed by the amount of DLC and had no idea what to buy. Microtransactions ontop of a full priced game is just greedy.

Make the base game free to play. Tidy up the steam store page. That would be a start. CS:GO costs 10 bucks for full access, just consmetics are DLC and they make a shit ton of money with it.

The new warspoils system will address some of these issues, but you're right, it is a confusing, clunky mess of a UI.

The new warspoils system will address some of these issues, but you're right, it is a confusing, clunky mess of a UI.

I'm afraid that the new war spoil system comes > 2 years too late.
Most players left are the fanbase (about 10.000 more or less) that have sticked with the game for a long time and also have most of the commanders (or at least some additional content).

It seems like relic really tries to not make money if you look at their ideas. Without their ridiculous greed they would have made at least ten times the money.

I'm afraid that the new war spoil system comes > 2 years too late.
Most players left are the fanbase (about 10.000 more or less) that have sticked with the game for a long time and also have most of the commanders (or at least some additional content).

It seems like relic really tries to not make money if you look at their ideas. Without their ridiculous greed they would have made at least ten times the money.

No one really knows if players quit because of the warspoils / DLC system.

Better late than never I say.

No one really knows if players quit because of the warspoils / DLC system.

Better late than never I say.

That's absolutely right, yes.

But I'm not talking about the war spoil thing alone. They were screwing up things since the Alpha and the paywall thing is something that scares players off. The RTS genre is already very small and the idea to make a full priced game with pay2win stuff is simply stupid as hell. Nobody with a clear mind would make something like that but THQ became bankrupt so everything they tried was to get money in.

It started with the skins which is okay in my opinion because it doesn't affect the game. Then first rumors became loud that there would be commanders that have to be unlocked with real money. This was a reason many players didn't even buy the game. Relic was like 'Yes, we know that you are afraid of this system, but we won't make it pay2win. It's just to let players try other strategies.'

Now every faction's meta revolves around a P2W commander.


Ostheer: Osttruppen, Spearhead, Elite Troops (old), Close Air Support (old)
Soviets: Partisans (old), IS2 + KV8
OKW: Defense Doctrine
USF: Calliope, Pershing, Elite Rifles (old)
UKF: Crocodile, Helms Deep

(sorry didn't know most of the names)

These are by far the most played commanders for each faction and each and every single on of them is not available if you begin playing the game on level 1.

You cannot unlock them (yet) without ridiculous luck or spending extra money.
People with these commanders CLEARLY have a advantage. There is no way anyone can deny that.

I did not spend a single Euro on anything besides the original game and Western Fronts. I marked the commanders I own after about 950 hours totally played in Orange ( I got some for preordering CoH2 aswell).

So as you can see, I played almost 1.000 hours (almost 41 days) and I don't own about half of the meta commanders.

OST didnt even have a free TIGER doctrine ;-;

You cannot unlock them (yet) without ridiculous luck or spending extra money.
People with these commanders CLEARLY have a advantage. There is no way anyone can deny that.

This is the most disappointing thing for me. I have thousands of man hours played, never bought a commander, and have less than half of available commanders. As a result, I often play against commanders for which I simply don't feel prepared. I understand having new players exposed to a more limited pool to help them learn the ropes while their rank is low, but commanders should have been made free to players who spend tons of time in the game rather quickly to prevent the P2W arguments, which I think fairly, stuck to the game.

That's absolutely right, yes.

But I'm not talking about the war spoil thing alone. They were screwing up things since the Alpha and the paywall thing is something that scares players off. The RTS genre is already very small and the idea to make a full priced game with pay2win stuff is simply stupid as hell. Nobody with a clear mind would make something like that but THQ became bankrupt so everything they tried was to get money in.

It started with the skins which is okay in my opinion because it doesn't affect the game. Then first rumors became loud that there would be commanders that have to be unlocked with real money. This was a reason many players didn't even buy the game. Relic was like 'Yes, we know that you are afraid of this system, but we won't make it pay2win. It's just to let players try other strategies.'

Now every faction's meta revolves around a P2W commander.


Ostheer: Osttruppen, Spearhead, Elite Troops (old), Close Air Support (old)
Soviets: Partisans (old), IS2 + KV8


OKW: Defense Doctrine
USF: Calliope, Pershing, Elite Rifles (old)
UKF: Crocodile, Helms Deep

(sorry didn't know most of the names)

These are by far the most played commanders for each faction and each and every single on of them is not available if you begin playing the game on level 1.

You cannot unlock them (yet) without ridiculous luck or spending extra money.
People with these commanders CLEARLY have a advantage. There is no way anyone can deny that.

I did not spend a single Euro on anything besides the original game and Western Fronts. I marked the commanders I own after about 950 hours totally played in Orange ( I got some for preordering CoH2 aswell).

So as you can see, I played almost 1.000 hours (almost 41 days) and I don't own about half of the meta commanders.

I agree.

Personally I have always stated, cosmetics are always good to sell but never game changing items.

Pull the clock back to when the game first came out in July. Considering all of the bugs in the game and the lack of maps with the 2 arguably best designed factions, you know the game was perfectly fine, people didn't complain too much about it. It was still a perfectly fine game.

While i agree the whole commander and DLC system is a mess, and this subject feels like beating the dead a horse, this is looking at the past with rose-tinted glasses.

Clowncar, ram, 85s, strafe of doom, G43+LMG42, HTD, ISU/Ele, PVs, Su85s, etc.

The new warspoil system is arriving 2 years late, but better late than never i'll say.

The first few weeks after assault Grens...

The Tiger Ace in the first month...

Yeah all words aside, every DLC commander has played out the same.

I swear the current changes to the PTRS were pushed off a month or two because the conscript PTRS doctrine had been released.

something never changes... sexton?