Comet or firefly against late game Axis armor

Which is a better choice against late game axis armor, or should they be used in tandem?

Comet seems to be slightly but meaningfully weaker than panther, but a piat or some arty can tip the scales. The firefly I've heard isn't too great because slow ROF and it's useless against INF. The shrekblob is a serious consideration too. I can have 3 fireflies for 2 panthers or match comet for panther.

So theory crafters, which is the better tank to select? (side note: churchill is useless enough against tanks and expensive enough that putting one in front of a wall of fireflies just isn't efficient)

Comet is better because it can anti-everything
Firefly only work against tank. Tank destroyer will destroy firefly quickly.
Churchill is excellent if you have 6pounder behind it to support.

IMO Firefly against every Axis armour except Elefants or JT. Just keep it alive and support it with infantry, cromwells, or churchills. At Vet2 or 3, one or two firefly(s) can easily pen a KT and Tiger.

Kitekaze is full of it, tbh.

Churchill is a wasted investment unless you are using a Crocodile doctrine, and even then it will get penetrated by most AT shots that are aimed in its direction. A Firefly is always an optimal choice against heavy Axis tanks because it has insane pen, Tulip rockets for chunking high-HP vehicles (e.g. Tiger, KT), and can sit in the back while your infantry spot for it. At vet 3 the Firefly's ROF becomes amazing, as well, so you end up with an extremely potent AT weapon that is both mobile and effective.

Comet is a good all-arounder but you have to be careful with it. Also, it can't attack ground or reliably wipe infantry squads like a Pershing can so it isn't as effective against blobs. When pretty much every game includes a panzerschrek blob, I honestly don't see the point in getting a Comet unless you're pressing a clear advantage.

Also, having a UC commander close by will increase the Firefly(s) rate of fire. High ROF + High Damage/Pen = dead Axis armour.

Cromwell cromwell and moar cromwells.

Cheap and they scale better vs armour than the comet or churchill (regular churchill is not worth building this patch). Comet only gets mobility and a grenade gimmick when the cromwell halves it's RoF at vet 3.

Basically the comet can seal club panzer 4's and is still a valid choice, but bare in mind if you have the same number of comets than he has panthers/tigers you're going to lose hard, even worse with time as he will get rate of fire and armour for his tanks while your comet gets nothing AT wise through vet.

If you're in teamgames the firefly is great with hammer due to the vehicle tracking in FoW, vet 3 firefly's will be your bread and butter vs tigers.

What Rollo said. However, if you find yourself floating fuck loads of munitions, a firefly with tulips can be devastating, esp when its vet3, can basically 1 shot any medium.

I've heard the Tulip always misses and is very expensive. Is this no longer the case?

No, Tulips are solid. They're a skillshot, so they're difficult to aim.

Tulips are amazing, but you have to be comfortable with the skillshot. If you're having trouble landing it, you can help your chances with engine damage and clever positioning (long and narrow corridors are the ideal, obvs.)

What Rollo said. Cromwell spam is the way to go. Cheap enough to get 2 of them, fast enough to flank almost all axis armor, and a meat grinder for volks blobs. Cromwell crush>>>>main gun and mgs combined.

Firefly tulips for heavies.

I would really only recommend comet for more HP and when dealing with heavy armor in urban close quarter maps because firefly turret traverse is slow and easily flanked.

Cromwells. A sturdy and reliable little tank XD

Does the comet still have the bug where shells don't impact the ground btw?

Firefly, solid choice (hope they fix the gun mantle model problem)

Comet, meh, first you lose heavy engineer upgrade, second, its gun has no projectile means no go for pro-smoke equipped panzers. and its missed often.

Give cromwell a try, most ppl get anvil just for heavy engineers

Firefly if you plan on using any churchills.

Comet if you don't.

Firefly, solid choice (hope they fix the gun mantle model problem)

Comet, meh, first you lose heavy engineer upgrade, second, its gun has no projectile means no go for pro-smoke equipped panzers. and its missed often.

Give cromwell a try, most ppl get anvil just for heavy engineers

Comet has a projectile. It got ninjaed in the last patch.

If you are facing Ele, JT or JP4, stay away from Firefly.

Don't forget about your infantry. Brit infantry might not have snares, but they do have PIATs, and PIATs absolutely wreck slow-moving late-game armour:
- You need 4-6 PIATs (more, and Obersoldaten will melt your face; fewer and the enemy tanks will escape).
- Get a Comet to vet1 if possible
- Send your infantry in (if you can really afford it MP/MU-wise get PIATs on commandos)
- Make sure you mix a mine-sweeper with your infantry (attack ground any mines you spot to "defuse" them)
- Comet stays back spams and smoke/WP to support your troops (focus fire on MGs and AT guns)
- Once your infantry maims/scares the heavy TD's your Comets move in and kick everyone's ass.

However, if you feel allergic to PIATs/think they aren't worth it, here's what you can use:

Against Panther spam:
- 2 Fireflies work wonders, if you can vet them up and keep Panthers away (Tulips help, but no need for them)
- Don't even think about spamming Comets; you will lose hard
- (I'm assuming you don't want to build AT guns, as they are easily countered by rocket artillery)

Against T3 spam (Stugs, PIV):
- Mainly what Rollo said about Comets
- 1 Tulip Firefly for 1-shotting

When JT/Elefant/JP4 hit the field:
- If you are really good with micro, consider Cromwell spam. Too risky though (Cromwells get 2-shot by the heavy TDs)
- Firefly Tulips can also traverse buildings, if you want to deal some safe damage
- PIATs are your best bet here.

When a KT hits the field:
- Fireflies are great at this. Beware of Raketens/JP4/heavy-TDs though
- PIATs can still work, but only if you manage to flank the rear side of the KT (otherwise the cannon will start vaporising your squads)

If you encounter a Pak43:
- Commandos all the way
- Otherwise, aim your Tulips at max range against it and you can one-shot the Pak43.

However, most of all:
- When you notice that the enemy adapts, you also need to make sure that you adapt your composition.
- Be flexible; don't fill up your Popcap just because you have the resources for a 4th Comet.

PS: Does anybody else think that the vanilla Churchill simply has no synergy with the other elements of the faction?

The Comet is expensive as fuck though, because you have to unlock the Anvil first. And after that it's 185 fuel + all the teching before that. If you add weapon upgrades / grenades and you can basically never afford a Comet early enough in an even game.

Firefly is very nice with the tulips though, and much more affordable. I'd choose that but it requires a lot of micro because of the reload time.

EDIT: changed my mind. Comet(s) with ATG and infantry support

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This ^

I totally agree with what Mr. Smith and Rollo stated, just gonna added my own generalised ramblings.

In team games, I find Brit late game armour to be a bit of a conundrum, not because because it necessarily weak – the tanks are good – its just their use is situational as Mr Smith said. They can be excellent in some scenarios and fall flat in others.
Best solution is the age old motto of combined arms, ie an mix of all different tanks and inf.

As for choosing between a firefly and comet, I would recommend always getting a cromwell first, and if you unsure about what the enemy is doing then get a comet - usually a safe option and it has utility in all situations.
- If you know they are going big on P4, panther and tiger spam then get a firefly or two.
- If they are going for TD armour spam (stugs, jP4, elephants and jTigers) then don't bother with either fireflies or comets, rather invest in 6lb and 17lb emplacement as well as PIAT mobs.
- If the axis have a mix of armour (good players) then you need a mix of armour which should be your default approach.

Firefly:
- Weird unit to honest, and certainly not your normal tank destroyer. I treat it very much like a sniper, kept well at the back and screened with meatshields.
- Its appalling fire rate and reliance on tulips make this an all or nothing unit. Most of the time the first shot is enough to make axis players think twice and back up, if not and they decide to bull rush you then you in trouble because unless you have 6lbs to back you up there its nothing stopping a panther from running down your slow firefly. Fireflies die when axis players get brave or have TDs around.
- Its difficult to finish off tanks with it because of its slow acceleration, turning and awful reload rate. By the time the next shell is up, the target is long gone. Vet 3 and Hammer tactics help with this immensely but a good option is the try cut the target off with a cromwell.
- Always support the firefly with a spotter, because its strength is its range and alpha strike. Knowing where tanks are coming is paramount. Snipers works great for this (tie in with crit shot) and command vehicle recon.
- Its terrible against other tank destroyers, so only get the firefly involved if the axis TDs are distracted by something else – or if its backed up by a command vehicle.
- Like in the actual war, fireflies tend to be priority targets, so make sure they stay out of harms way.

Comet:
Comet is an expensive good all rounder tank but has a few issues:
- It has a habit of missing often, making it a bit of an RNG machine. Sometimes it does amazing against inf and tanks, sometimes bugger all. May have to do with the comets lack of a projectile.
Same story when taking hits; its front armour is high enough to not get auto penetrated but not high enough to bounce shots reliably.
- The smoke shells have excellent utility and really make the comet shine, the problem is the ability bugs out when its needed most, sometimes making a complete mess of things. White phosphorous shells can stop a schrek blob in their tracks, so be generous when sharing with the axis.
- The grenade ability while useful, should not be relied upon or be used in a situation that puts the tank at risk. It does a small amount of aoe and often fails to kill the weapon crew its aimed at. Churchill on the other hand has a nuclear powered grenade which is good at wiping out most things (and currently its only useful feature). Not tried a comet since latest patch so I’m not sure if the ability still bugs out.
- If you insist on going for comet spam (not recommended at all – better to have a mixed armour force) then go for a commander with vehicle repair and smoke ability. Really makes a difference at keeping your force going.