Is SimCity a boring game mechanic to play against?

No one has actually negated Aerohawk's point that OKW's potential for simcity and UKF's potential for simcity are still both simcities - immobile, tough structures that work together to lock-down significant territory that can get to a point which requires counterbuilding and playing to avoid them entirely until you can hope to destroy them.

It doesn't matter about the distinctions in practice, because this thread is not asking "Are UKF simcities overpowered", the thread is "Is SimCity a boring game mechanic to play against?" which speaks of the overarching existence of the design choice entirely and not the specific numbers relating its balance.

Yup. OKW making a cute little city with their repair shop, general hospital and flak building.. oh and throw in a PAK43.. literally just as cancer as UKF sim city.

What makes things worse is OKW have ALL the tools to deal with sim city (stuka/LeIG) both non doc.. what do UKF have? Fucking nothing apart from the shitty base arty.

I do think there are some similarities between okw and ukf in terms of being able to lock down vps. And for this I can suggest a fair solution. Neither flak hq nor bofors should be placeable within firing range of a vp (could create a second perhaps invisible barrier around them for emplacements).

But aside from this there are major differences that you can't discount. The most major ones are that okw loses their last tier production capacity if the flak hq goes down. Secondly there is no such thing as brace for it. Thirdly there is no such doctrinal ability as auto repair, stand fast. Additionally there is no garrisoning to increase rate of fire or add additional suppression abilities. I think this adds up to a completely different concept of sim city and if the usual five apologists would acknowledge that, like the overwhelming majority seem to with this poll, then we may get somewhere.

Yup. OKW making a cute little city with their repair shop, general hospital and flak building.. oh and throw in a PAK43.. literally just as cancer as UKF sim city.

What makes things worse is OKW have ALL the tools to deal with sim city (stuka/LeIG) both non doc.. what do UKF have? Fucking nothing apart from the shitty base arty.

Have you tried taking out Simcity emplacements with the new commander with a LeIG? Clearly not. It takes a very, very long to damage mortar pits or bofors once the advanced emplacements upgrade has been purchased. And it dies pretty fast to the mortar pit bombardment. And even if its out of range of the mortars, it will die to the Counter Battery ability the new commander has. It usually wipes the LeIG with just a few shots, and on most 1v1 (and some 2v2) maps, it is impossible to get the LeIg out of range of the base arty while still shooting at emplacements. The Stuka is better, but with brace it does less than half the health of an emplacement and the CD means it is very easy to just repair the emplacements between shots.

UKF have the most important counter to OKW base structures: the AT gun. Just put it at max range, protected by an MG, and attack ground. It really isn't very hard. Perhaps play some more Axis before you try and make points about balance.

There is more to it than that Rappy. You are looking at emplacements purely from the sim-city perspective. The game is, however, played by a minimum of 2 players with different factions.

When I am facing brit emplacements I can deal with it with both axis factions without needing a specific doctrine by following the standard anti-emplacement playbook.
- Enemy invested in emplacements (less squads) and can not have early mobile AT; so use extra squads backed by a light vehicle to take the map.
- Skip medium armor, go directly for sturdy tanks that are hard to lose (panther).
- Add in (rocket) arty to deal with AT guns covering emplacements.

With this playstyle, time is often on my side as emplacements lose their value the longer the game goes on and there will not be an UKF super heavy tank on the field.

When I am facing OKW simcity as USF, I am facing an entirely different struggle.
- I do not get a huge map-presence advantage as OKW sim-city dubbles as their way of teching; panzerschreks also provide decent mobile AT (unlike PIATS, which will not hit a luchs that is moving)
- I have no heavy tanks that I can tech too, I have to go with medium armor which is easier to lose.
- I have no decent nondoctrinal (rocket) arty to support my tanks vs AT guns.
- Time is not on my side; big daddy King Tiger will come in.

Playing USF vs OKW sim city is at least as frustrating as any axis vs UKF sim city. Looking at only the survivability of the structures is ignoring 90% of the factors that actually decide what goes on in a game.

Edit: Also, the poll makes absolutely no distinction between OKW and UKF sim-city. Claiming that the overwhelming majority of players thinks OKW sim-city is fine but hake UKF sim-city based on the poll is being dishonest.

There is more to it than that Rappy. You are looking at emplacements purely from the sim-city perspective. The game is, however, played by a minimum of 2 players with different factions.

When I am facing brit emplacements I can deal with it with both axis factions without needing a specific doctrine by following the standard anti-emplacement playbook.
- Enemy invested in emplacements (less squads) and can not have early mobile AT; so use extra squads backed by a light vehicle to take the map.
- Skip medium armor, go directly for sturdy tanks that are hard to lose (panther).
- Add in (rocket) arty to deal with AT guns covering emplacements.

With this playstyle, time is often on my side as emplacements lose their value the longer the game goes on and there will not be an UKF super heavy tank on the field.

When I am facing OKW simcity as USF, I am facing an entirely different struggle.
- I do not get a huge map-presence advantage as OKW sim-city dubbles as their way of teching; panzerschreks also provide decent mobile AT (unlike PIATS, which will not hit a luchs that is moving)
- I have no heavy tanks that I can tech too, I have to go with medium armor which is easier to lose.
- I have no decent nondoctrinal (rocket) arty to support my tanks vs AT guns.
- Time is not on my side; big daddy King Tiger will come in.

Playing USF vs OKW sim city is at least as frustrating as any axis vs UKF sim city. Looking at only the survivability of the structures is ignoring 90% of the factors that actually decide what goes on in a game.

Edit: Also, the poll makes absolutely no distinction between OKW and UKF sim-city. Claiming that the overwhelming majority of players thinks OKW sim-city is fine but hake UKF sim-city based on the poll is being dishonest.

Although I agree with 95% of the post I do think that the UKF emplacements are way more survivable than the OKW tech structures. The brace alone is the main factor to this.

Playing USF vs OKW sim city is at least as frustrating as any axis vs UKF sim city. Looking at only the survivability of the structures is ignoring 90% of the factors that actually decide what goes on in a game.

Edit: Also, the poll makes absolutely no distinction between OKW and UKF sim-city. Claiming that the overwhelming majority of players thinks OKW sim-city is fine but hake UKF sim-city based on the poll is being dishonest.

USF use smoke and/or one of their many howitzer tanks (one being non-doc). I don't think I've ever had difficulty with an aggressively placed flak hq as USF. Same goes for Soviets, they have Zis and Assault guns and a variety of mortars. Easy work.

Also, the poll, while predominantly about the concept of emplacement mechanics it is specifically about Allied Simcity. Look at the I don't know option, it says ie. I only play as Allies.

You are very over-representing in this thread, I have to say. And you can play ignorant to the major difference in difficulty dealing with Brit emplacements and OKW tech structures all you want, but that won't change the reality that it's an order more difficult at least to get rid of Brit emplacements. Then add another order with the new doc.

It hardly needs brace, it has armour, 2000hp, is free and has a firing range that puts it out of reach of most units.

If you can't take out emplacements with Leigs alone then you really need to consider Candy Crush Saga as a career move.

Your thread may have been about Allied Sim Cities but looks as though it has, quite rightly, been hijacked to pose a more cancerous issue. As the Brits I try to keep mobile yet face an OKW sim city almost every game without any of the wonder weapon counters that you whinge are unacceptably underpowered.

I suspect if we had the stats available for the number of emplacements that die per game compared to the number of times a Schwerer is taken out in a UKF / OKW matchup it would be so weighted as to not require any further comment.

Indeed I rather suspect the stats would indeed show an order of magnitude, just not in the direction that you attest.

Frankly this is not even a L2P issue, it is only natural that the meta changes with the addition of new commanders and you should recognise that your tired, boring and abusive playstyle is ( finally) at least partly countered.

#Adapt, OWK is hardly short of tools.

USF use smoke and/or one of their many howitzer tanks (one being non-doc). I don't think I've ever had difficulty with an aggressively placed flak hq as USF. Same goes for Soviets, they have Zis and Assault guns and a variety of mortars. Easy work.

Also, the poll, while predominantly about the concept of emplacement mechanics it is specifically about Allied Simcity. Look at the I don't know option, it says ie. I only play as Allies.

You are very over-representing in this thread, I have to say. And you can play ignorant to the major difference in difficulty dealing with Brit emplacements and OKW tech structures all you want, but that won't change the reality that it's an order more difficult at least to get rid of Brit emplacements. Then add another order with the new doc.

I'd say in the grand scheme of things, it is easier for axis to deal with UKF emplacement play than it is for USF (without calliope) or even UKF (without landmatrass) to deal with OKW emplacement play. You can win slow-and-steady against british emplacement play by building up a strong lategame army that is more than a match for the smaller UKF army (emplacements cost supply). Against OKW, you have to end it quickly because his late game army will overpower yours thanks to big daddy King Tiger.

I have yet to be in a situation where I had to tell myself: "welp, guess there is nothing I can bring to the table to counter this", when playing against UKF simcity. I can not say the same when playing USF vs OKW simcity.

Also, the poll, while predominantly about the concept of emplacement mechanics it is specifically about Allied Simcity. Look at the I don't know option, it says ie. I only play as Allies.

You are very over-representing in this thread, I have to say. And you can play ignorant to the major difference in difficulty dealing with Brit emplacements and OKW tech structures all you want, but that won't change the reality that it's an order more difficult at least to get rid of Brit emplacements. Then add another order with the new doc.

Then why are you talking about game design fun instead of game balance? Why are you mentioning the UKF emplacements in general instead of the specifics that make the difference? I frankly had the same reaction as Aerohawk.

If you think the UKF's emplacements' potential are specifically too difficult to dislodge and slow gameplay down around them, you should mention why them instead of just saying "UKF emplacements aren't fun", which is why Aerohawk brought up basically "Well, OKW trucks are conceptually similar too." to the discussion, for the absence of mentioning OKW to this logically implies that OKWs' version of emplacements are fun.

Where were you when OKW was at its fineset with simcitying?

Where were you when OKW was at its fineset with simcitying?

Probably sitting between med HQ and schwerer

It's interesting how often "Allies" and "Axis" are used interchangeably with specific factions.

OKW is not OST.

USF is not UKF.

UKF has more options to keep their emplacements alive, OKW has more options for killing those emplacements.

Ostheer isn't exactly well situated to deal with UKF sim city, and USF is not well situated to handle the Schewerer Panzer.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I accept that okw have emplacements too that can also be tough to dislodge.. If it's tedious to dislodge the structures then I say it is part of the boring game of tennis that I asked about in the poll and I suggested a solution to both flak hq and bofors to prevent them locking down vps. But I maintain that okw is not the same as simcity. Simcity creeps and grows. You cannot move the okw base structures or make multiples.

It hardly needs brace, it has armour, 2000hp, is free and has a firing range that puts it out of reach of most units.

@Spinflight, you lost me when you said the flak hq is free.
Goodbye

Although I agree with 95% of the post I do think that the UKF emplacements are way more survivable than the OKW tech structures. The brace alone is the main factor to this.

OKW sim city does not cost 20 pop for an heavy AT gun, Leig's are less pop that mortar pits and the flak truck/repair shop/medics cost nothing at all (all brits get with tech is the 25pdr, wew totally worth it).

He might have brace but he can't afford an actual army like you can

Last time I made a poll with a leading question an admin modified it...

Last time I made a poll with a leading question an admin modified it...

That's wonderful, but that's a non sequitur. This isn't a leading question.

Lol, how many OKW simcities do you need to lock down a VP or two cupcake?

Poor precious little dear finds it to be unfun dealing with the odd mortar pit or bofors. Awwww, is there a pea under my princesses mattress?

Lel "Brits make static/defensive lame gameplay", Spouting out and reapting Buzzwords like Mobility, Flanking, Competitive over and over again in a game that always was and still is in it's core about KEEPING sectors(VP core mechanic), sit on them, watch a counter trickle down in order for you to win

The Community of this Game is toxic as fuck, that's for sure.

I've personally managed myself well enough in regards to Axis vs. UKF. Against OKW simcity however is far less common.

IMO the problem I see with simcity is that, at least from the UKF perspective, you kind of have to go for it because of faction design. It's not like a commander choice, you either take ground and huddle, preferably with Bofors, or you try to rush expensive base units holding territory. UKF is the complete opposite of USF and Soviets, units are neither cheap nor mobile enough to make for a offensive-oriented aggressive approach.

Sure you CAN try to be gutsy with an AEC, but ultimately UKF is about emplacements: try playing any game using zero emplacements as UKF, it's not even designed to work that way. So the problem is that you really can't try anything else when you play as British. OKW is kind of the same thing- putting down HQ trucks in far territories is both an advantage and sometimes a necessity to win...but you can still opt to just put them down in HQ sector and operate like Ostheer/ Soviets. The need to simcity you HQ trucks only really comes in if they are put in a position where you have to; unlike UKF emplacements you can try to hide them in corners of a base or in a protected salient of the map- in contrast you're wasting precious manpower, fuel and popca if you did that as UKF.

In that regard, my feelings toward playing as/against UKF has largely been the forced need to deal with simcity. Had UKF been designed where emplacements were a non-doctrinal alternative then that might be different. For example, amalgamating both mortar and bofors emplacement as a T2 upgrade via a Defensive specialization, whereas a light mortar team and AEC fulfill an alternate Offensive specialization. At least then, you've got two things going: as UKF you can opt to try a more mobile but squishy approach instead of campy simcity, and as opponent you are guessing whether the British player is going for mobility or consolidation.
That might require revisiting certain UKF designs though, especially the latest Advanced Emplacement commander, whose sole purpose in its selling point is augmenting the emplacement end of things.

On the whole I never liked how a specific faction is designed so much around emplacements. At least for Axis, PaK43 and Hulldown are only available if you sacrifice the choice of Tiger or CAS. For UKF it's not only a given, it's a must.

So what makes (UKF) simcity boring is that you literally cannot do anything else. Same goes for Soviets: wanna build emplacements? Well Soviets have zero.