2 cm Flak AA emplacement buff

https://www.coh2.org/topic/46755/flak-emplacements
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This.

I agree with the no abandon
If the Brits cant have their fuel emplacements turned against them neither should the okw!
Make it actually hit on occasion and not just the ground would be pretty paramount as well

" Instead improve the T4 Flak as it costs a fortune and is too weak compared to BOF."

Craziness confirmed.... You may consider my gaster to be flabbered. KT and Panther are a bit weak too, maybe buff their armour by 50% or so?

Other than getting 4 of them for free what problem exactly does this unit need buffing to solve??

IT ain't Flak Simulation Parody XXX 2016.


SO buffin that emplacement would, eventually, create a shitty Brits-Style meta. Instead improve the T4 Flak as it costs a fortune and is too weak compared to BOF.

4 for free? I think you are thinking of the okw base flaks (instead of bunkers)
This is about the ones in doctrines that have a fuel cost and no use

Alright guys listen up. Making it unable to be abandoned is IMPOSSIBLE.

It's a crew weapon like an AT gun, not an structure like the bofors. They can't just make it unable to be abondoned, because then it would become pretty invulnerable.

What that means is that all units treat it like an AT gun and aim at the infantry first. There are two issues with that. The first being that the weapon is invulnerable until the infaantry dies, making a weird invulnerabilty loop where neither the gun nor the infantry manning it can die. And even if they got around that then there's the fact that since the all the shells would be aimed at the infantry, they will scatter due to their small size, making it extremely hard to actually hit the gun and attack ground would also have trouble given the small size of the flak itself.

Making the flak into a structure would pretty much entail remaking the unit from the ground up, which is a lot of time and effort to waste that could take months and cause many bugs.

So give up on that ever happening. OPs buff is way more realistic.

From my experience the decrew is not the the only problemen. It just dies too fast in general for a 250mp + 20fuel unit. The price is close to the bofors, yet it can not brace and goes down completely after like 4 mortar hits. Ergo why I proposed the price decrease. Just making the crew immortal does not fix the unit.

The bold part.
It can't even take 3 mortar shots. It's ridiculous.

I would just buff the health and leave the cost in place.. Even with a cost reduction, it can't take a single hit so I wouldn't build it.

Yes they need quite some help, the right amount of help, it could be a terribly annoying unit if overbuffed like relic always does. But what about removing the AA capabilities of the base flack turrets, this way the empleacements could be a lot more relevant, and soviet planes somewhat useful.

No abandon is the most practical, especially given that its much superior counterpart, UKF Bofors, has that benefit.

But if what Omega says is true- it's impossible aside from Relic spending time on rebuilding the most underused emplacement in CoH1 history from scratch- then the next option is simply give it super buffs.
End of the day though, would you really want to spend your fuel and Sturmpioniers building a small limited emplacement that does what your MG34 already does?

In that case maybe just removing it entirely and replacing it with something more practical like, I dunno hull down, may be more beneficial and opens up more strategies. The 2cm emplacement unlocks are found in defensive-oriented commanders.

i noticed if the flak emplacement has to shoot over a slight hill they dont hit anything. tested it on a flat surface. could use a suppress buff

No abandon is the most practical, especially given that its much superior counterpart, UKF Bofors, has that benefit.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, the loss of crew members is not actually the units biggest problem.

I have used the 2cm flak emplacement a couple of times 5 times now in games for testing, and in none of the cases it got decrewed. It just got outright destroyed quickly to indirect fire. The actual firepower delivered by the flak emplacement was alright, but it died so quickly that it does not justify the price tag of 250mp/20fuel.

Well, if it works like a AT gun, it should have (at least) two more squadmembers to prevent instant decrewment from grenades. ALso a idea would be medikits (selfhealing for munitions) at vet 1.

I common strategy to counter those things is:

1.: Drop smoke.

2.: Advance with Infantry.

3.: Throw any kind of grenade.

More counters include, but aren't limited to: AT-guns, mortars, any tank, tank destroyers, onmap artillery, offmap artillery, snipers (unsure about that one, there has been a patch)

Edit: Oh i forgot: the 2cm Flakemplacment HAS NO VETERANCY

I agree this unit needs to get some more love from Relic.

The fact that it dies quicker than infantry in negative cover, susceptible to all arty, and 1 shot nades make it a poor choice for the cost.

Not to mention there is no vet available.

I agree wih the suggestion in making it more like UKF Bofors

Alright guys listen up. Making it unable to be abandoned is IMPOSSIBLE.

It's a crew weapon like an AT gun, not an structure like the bofors. They can't just make it unable to be abondoned, because then it would become pretty invulnerable.

What that means is that all units treat it like an AT gun and aim at the infantry first. There are two issues with that. The first being that the weapon is invulnerable until the infaantry dies, making a weird invulnerabilty loop where neither the gun nor the infantry manning it can die. And even if they got around that then there's the fact that since the all the shells would be aimed at the infantry, they will scatter due to their small size, making it extremely hard to actually hit the gun and attack ground would also have trouble given the small size of the flak itself.

Making the flak into a structure would pretty much entail remaking the unit from the ground up, which is a lot of time and effort to waste that could take months and cause many bugs.

So give up on that ever happening. OPs buff is way more realistic.

Easy work around to this would making its members a special ebps, and making those models impervious to all forms of damage. Once weapon is destroyed they would retreat off map. (Or lose invincibility and promptly die.)

IF you just make it so it can't be decrewed and increase suppression we might actually have something.

Alright guys listen up. Making it unable to be abandoned is IMPOSSIBLE.

It's a crew weapon like an AT gun, not an structure like the bofors. They can't just make it unable to be abondoned, because then it would become pretty invulnerable.

What that means is that all units treat it like an AT gun and aim at the infantry first. There are two issues with that. The first being that the weapon is invulnerable until the infaantry dies, making a weird invulnerabilty loop where neither the gun nor the infantry manning it can die. And even if they got around that then there's the fact that since the all the shells would be aimed at the infantry, they will scatter due to their small size, making it extremely hard to actually hit the gun and attack ground would also have trouble given the small size of the flak itself.

Making the flak into a structure would pretty much entail remaking the unit from the ground up, which is a lot of time and effort to waste that could take months and cause many bugs.

So give up on that ever happening. OPs buff is way more realistic.

hmm i always thought it is structure, since it can't move. if that is the case, Relic need rework it to make it become structure like Bofors, because right now its is completely useless.