Sturmpioneers 'as it is' need to be removed from the game

Nuff said. OP in cqc (on par with shocks and commandos), decent in midrange (on par with conscripts and riflemen), versatile engineering (repairs,mines,wire,medical stuff), excellent vet scaling. All these is not compensated by its 'higher' cost.

P.S. everything else about OKW I also strongly dislike in terms of design/balance (volks with shreks, rocketwerfer, etc.) but SPs imo are lacking attention even from the most dedicated balance whiners and OKW haters

I didn't think I'd be that guy once, but: playercard pls
Sturmpioneers are a strong early game unit, no doubt about that. I don't have problems with facing them either and it's great to have a short range & flanking unit as OKW.

No, leave them.

+ signature

I'd rly to see a thread of yours in the STRATEGY section and asking HOW to deal with them instead of all this overhaul & nerf stuff everybody is tired to see.

This is one of the few units that doesn't need to be touched.

Don't fix what isn't broken.

well some argumentation besides 'l2p' wouldn't hurt, don't you think?

They're pretty much OK alone, problem comes when they rush your fuel point while their kubel captures their. This could be prevented by not making them a starting unit. Also their mid-range DPS is quite too big, supposed to be in line with sten guns and mp40s, but a lot better...
They surely don't need to be completely reworked, however

well some argumentation besides 'l2p' wouldn't hurt, don't you think?

There is no argument. Sturmpioneers are fine.

They're pretty much OK alone, problem comes when they rush your fuel point while their kubel captures their. This could be prevented by not making them a starting unit. Also their mid-range DPS is quite too big, supposed to be in line with sten guns and mp40s, but a lot better...
They surely don't need to be completely reworked, however

IMO, this would be the best "fix", if the Kubel was the starting unit for OKW, instead of the SP. I find it ridiculous that a T0 single squad has to be dealt with both a T0 and T1 squad. If the Kubel was the starting unit, then by the time the SP came out, the allied player would have it's 2nd squad out for a near equal fight. OKW is forced to go for it's fuel capture or harassment, not doing both at the same time.

Looks like your on the losing side kumosabie

playercard pls

Sturm vet is nothing special, they're expensive, they're fragile and they have a strictly worse weapon profile than PGrens. They're definitely way weaker than shocks, don't scale as well as rifles, and are completely helpless against vehicles. Their max range dps is atrocious per cost.

In the early game try to force sturms to engage you while you're stationary in green cover. Most squads should drop a model off the sturms if they try and rush you head on.

Keep and eye on your flanks and if they do get too close don't be afraid to have to retreat to save yourself manpower and stave off sturm veterancy.

They're good at what they do early game but are quickly outclasses by most other squads. They're useful to have around but not nearly efficient enough to spam. I would say they're in a good spot overall. Maybe they could plant wire faster now that it is cuttable.

Sturm vet is nothing special, they're expensive, they're fragile and they have a strictly worse weapon profile than PGrens. They're definitely way weaker than shocks, don't scale as well as rifles, and are completely helpless against vehicles. Their max range dps is atrocious per cost.

In the early game try to force sturms to engage you while you're stationary in green cover. Most squads should drop a model off the sturms if they try and rush you head on.

Keep and eye on your flanks and if they do get too close don't be afraid to have to retreat to save yourself manpower and stave off sturm veterancy.

They're good at what they do early game but are quickly outclasses by most other squads. They're useful to have around but not nearly efficient enough to spam. I would say they're in a good spot overall. Maybe they could plant wire faster now that it is cuttable.

Yeah, that.

I mainly play Allies so i'm a probably biased (though I've played Axis before and i often feel bad because of how much less micro is needed aka it's 'easier') but...

I'm fine with Sturmpioneers in that they have deadly weapons at medium to close range but are actually rather fragile. The problem begins as soon as they enter a freaking building. From then on, you are basically screwed as Allies in removing that Sturmpioneer from that building :/

So, Sturmpioneers as a glass-cannon infantry? I'm okay with the idea. But when they're in buildings, I find them extremely frustrating and :drumroll: unfair.

I honestly dont know how you are supposed to deal with them other than relentlessly attacking the building with MGs, infantry, and mortars. And given how long the process is to either wipe or force the Sturmpioneer to retreat, the OKW player will have capped more points since they were able to delay you.

And even if you, as allies, enter a/the building first, their sturmpioneer will keep firing at you blindspot at point blank range until you have to retreat.

I don't know what I would do with them. Either increase the manpower price or lower their health even more

I mainly play Allies so i'm a probably biased (though I've played Axis before and i often feel bad because of how much less micro is needed aka it's 'easier') but...

Calliope doctrine much micro involved eyy

Calliope doctrine much micro involved eyy

I wouldn't know since I refuse to buy a commander who is the only effective anti-blob commander in the USF faction :/

Besides, they are nerfing the Calliope :V

I mainly play Allies so i'm a probably biased (though I've played Axis before and i often feel bad because of how much less micro is needed aka it's 'easier') but...

I'm fine with Sturmpioneers in that they have deadly weapons at medium to close range but are actually rather fragile. The problem begins as soon as they enter a freaking building. From then on, you are basically screwed as Allies in removing that Sturmpioneer from that building :/

So, Sturmpioneers as a glass-cannon infantry? I'm okay with the idea. But when they're in buildings, I find them extremely frustrating and :drumroll: unfair.

I honestly dont know how you are supposed to deal with them other than relentlessly attacking the building with MGs, infantry, and mortars. And given how long the process is to either wipe or force the Sturmpioneer to retreat, the OKW player will have capped more points since they were able to delay you.

And even if you, as allies, enter a/the building first, their sturmpioneer will keep firing at you blindspot at point blank range until you have to retreat.

I don't know what I would do with them. Either increase the manpower price or lower their health even more

The problem here are buildings in general, they have way too much impact in the game early on regardless of what unit is inside it.

I mainly play Allies so i'm a probably biased (though I've played Axis before and i often feel bad because of how much less micro is needed aka it's 'easier') but...

I'm fine with Sturmpioneers in that they have deadly weapons at medium to close range but are actually rather fragile. The problem begins as soon as they enter a freaking building. From then on, you are basically screwed as Allies in removing that Sturmpioneer from that building :/

So, Sturmpioneers as a glass-cannon infantry? I'm okay with the idea. But when they're in buildings, I find them extremely frustrating and :drumroll: unfair.

I honestly dont know how you are supposed to deal with them other than relentlessly attacking the building with MGs, infantry, and mortars. And given how long the process is to either wipe or force the Sturmpioneer to retreat, the OKW player will have capped more points since they were able to delay you.

And even if you, as allies, enter a/the building first, their sturmpioneer will keep firing at you blindspot at point blank range until you have to retreat.

I don't know what I would do with them. Either increase the manpower price or lower their health even more

playercard pls, seems to be low level guessing from "allies, axis".

okw needs less micro (its retarted how effective a-moving that blob is), Soviet needs less micro(maxims a-moving anyone? 6man squasds anyone?).
ostheer on the other side needs the most micro of all factions. so simply saying LOLOL ALLIES MORE MICRO AXIS LESS is a typical "newbi", "baddie" statement

oh l2p and smoke&flank

Just in my opinion, make Sturmpioneer to be more like Pioneer would be ok, I guess? Make them having the same DPS and reduce its price would be nice.
Also, this may be off-topic but Kubel shouldn't be able to cap since UC and many other light vehicle can't. Still think the old Kubel is better (The one with weaker armor but can suppress! )

playercard pls, seems to be low level guessing from "allies, axis".

okw needs less micro (its retarted how effective a-moving that blob is), Soviet needs less micro(maxims a-moving anyone? 6man squasds anyone?).
ostheer on the other side needs the most micro of all factions. so simply saying LOLOL ALLIES MORE MICRO AXIS LESS is a typical "newbi", "baddie" statement

oh l2p and smoke&flank

Can't seem to add my Steam numbers nor my Steam name VOV

Anywho, are Maxim spamming still a thing? I've played for months and I've only seen it once (a year ago, yes Maxim spams were more common). The reason why I, my friend, and probably others dont do it is because the Maxim is just inferior in every sense with the exception being the deployment time.

The firing arc is much much narrower, the 6 men crew have less health which means you'll get more 'interrupts' where the Maxim user is killed and the next crewman gets onto the MG but he'll probably get killed before he can fire or even retreat, so the next crewman comes in and etc.

Yes, the deployment time is faster but it's much easier to outflank a narrow-arc-firing maxim than a MG42. Plus, Grenadiers have freaking Rifle Grenades that fire from afar.

Ostheer requiring the most micro? Really? Well, certainly more micro than OKW :V But you have units like the MG42 which covers such a wide arc, is buildable in the very first building (why, Relic?) and apparently is only 240 Manpower compared to say, the inferior 50 Cal MG team, which can handle themselves pretty well. Not to mention those bunkers that keep you on the frontlines with the Reinforce/Healing upgrades or protecting points and flanks with the MG upgrade.

Ostheer also have the best AT gun in the game, which already penetrates most vehicles, has a long range, fires at a faster rate than the ZIS, and also can stun vehicles.

The G43 upgrade is really significant, Ostruppen spam is quite deadly given that they also have Panzerfausts, and I lol when I hear people complain that the PZ Grenadier is underpowered (yes, 2 Shreks + already effective STGs)

And Ostheer tanks, like the OKW's, is already well rounded in having great guns, great speed, and great armor. And there's a loooooot of Tiger commander users. And the Panzerwerfer is probably the best default (non-commander) artillery unit.

Yes, with infantry (save for the Ostruppen) you probably will have to be more careful with losses so I suppose there is a level of micro there. But again, Ostheer have units like tanks that require less micro to handle whereas a Soviet player will need to micro more tanks/infantry to take out a Panther.

Controlling 2 T34s is far more demanding than controlling 1 Panther.

I still stand by my belief that playing Soviets and USF is far more micro-intensive due to having to control more and (arguably) inferior units. I don't know much about the Brits but I will say from my experience: USF/Soviets<--Wehrmacht<-----OKW

My only concession from all of this is yes, losses do matter more as Ostheer which is micro-related.

Oh, smoke and flank. I already do that with MG42s. It is annoying that while Axis get their grenades no matter what (linear progression), USF and the others have to purchase grenades which for the USF, is the only way of flushing MGs out :/

Just in my opinion, make Sturmpioneer to be more like Pioneer would be ok, I guess? Make them having the same DPS and reduce its price would be nice.
Also, this may be off-topic but Kubel shouldn't be able to cap since UC and many other light vehicle can't. Still think the old Kubel is better (The one with weaker armor but can suppress! )

Seen some cheese tactics with the Kubel XP

Where two players build 4 Kubels in total and start controlling and cutting off the entire map early game.

Thankfully I've only seen it twice so far :V