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Replace spio with vgren as okw starting unit

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15 Feb 2016, 17:55 PM
#41
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 17:42 PMBurts
Kubel as a starting unit instead of sturmpios could be interesting.

Or just remove the MG from Kubel altogether and give it some utility ability like Booby trap/Mine detection ala Ketten, make them a starting unit and OKW would be much more interesting.
15 Feb 2016, 17:57 PM
#42
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 17:55 PMMittens

They already have a pretty good start with the kubal and its a great harassment unit. That being said it shouldn't be able to cap faster now that OKW have full resource income when it was first tested in alpha.
Adjusting starting MP would make it so double Sturms require you to wait a bit to push them out the door making volks or a kubal your first starting unit.


@burts: we saw that in alpha and it was alright but lead to kubal spam being a meta, not sure how it would work in the live build we have now tho
15 Feb 2016, 18:22 PM
#43
avatar of Virtual Boar

Posts: 196

Sturmpios provide a really hefty punch early on. Have mixed feelings about this, having used them and suffered at their hands.

What i don't like however is the change to the Kubel into a fast capping unit. Preferred the way it was, has a mobile suppression unit.
15 Feb 2016, 18:27 PM
#44
avatar of Captain QQ

Posts: 365

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 17:37 PMAlphrum
play OKW before crying about it cuz clearly you have not. yes, in 1v1 sturms will have the upper hand in 1v1 if they come close, where as if you fire from from distance they WILL drop atleast a model and lose alot of dps and lol rushing a building with sturms? you just have to fire at the building from max distance which minimizes their dps. the only faction that can abuse building rushes early game are UKF infantry sections.


You have got to be kidding me. You aren't even close to legit right now.

I have absolutely played OKW and done this and it works. It has been done to me so many times I just quit the match then and there usually because I don't want to play THAT game again.

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 17:37 PMAlphrum

AND LOL the amount of BS about infantry sections in green cover vs sturms closing in is nonsense, yes strums might have a chance (LOW) of winning but in MOST cases IS in green cover WILL BEAT STURMS closing in. If sturms get the drop from bh or something then its a different story.


Why don't I spell it out for you. Sorry, I don't have any crayons to make it easier so you may need to ask an adult to help you.

1v1

okw

small map

spio fuel rush

GG

80% of the time they do this, it is successful. I lose map presence and time while they get to seriously hamper my early game all because of a free starting unit.

Even the threat of spio forces doubling up.

Can you really say that is balanced?
15 Feb 2016, 18:31 PM
#45
avatar of Sirlami
Donator 11

Posts: 422 | Subs: 3

Why don't I spell it out for you. Sorry, I don't have any crayons to make it easier so you may need to ask an adult to help you.

1v1

okw

small map

spio fuel rush

GG

80% of the time they do this, it is successful. I lose map presence and time while they get to seriously hamper my early game all because of a free starting unit.

Even the threat of spio forces doubling up.

Can you really say that is balanced?





You know don't how to play allies then, allies need to stick together in early game, no lone squads or you bleed, get to the important buildings (even at the cost of no cap with the first squad) and keep them and stick to good positions, after 3 squads you can start assaulting them and always focus the sturms. There you go.

Also if the map is close range use shocks or rangers, they will rape sturms all day everyday.
15 Feb 2016, 18:46 PM
#48
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

Yes please, this game needs more Volks, MORE.
15 Feb 2016, 18:50 PM
#49
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

The only okw issue is their infantry play revolving around blobs, and no counter to lol Maxim.

1st Spio is only an issue if you play poorly, so just l2p
15 Feb 2016, 18:50 PM
#50
avatar of Sirlami
Donator 11

Posts: 422 | Subs: 3

Captain qq you dont know what you are talking about, please stop already.

And why arent you rushing the fuel? You can make it before the spios if you don't stop to cap.

This is just one big l2p issue, absolutely no need to whine about it on the forums.
15 Feb 2016, 18:56 PM
#51
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 08:32 AMKatitof
Spios as starting unit are mostly fine.

If there is one thing to complain about, its the free 100mp OKW gets at start over all other armies.


Yes. Spios alone are manageable, just stay out of their range until you can 2v1 them (or as US just get better cover), and if he concentrates forces around them cap elsewhere. But the MP advantage means that the dual Volks or Volks + Kubel isn't far behind which is a very potent early game force.

Still, this isn't a game breaker. OKW would have a way higher winrate if Sturms were that powerful early game.
15 Feb 2016, 19:04 PM
#52
avatar of MarkedRaptor

Posts: 320

I think on some maps the Stormpois can be super oppressive, you combine that with a kubel and they can actually shut you out on some maps. I really hate it. People say to stick together but if there's a building by the fuel point you will give it up by waiting.

If I have Rears in the building they die horribly to a point blank storm pio. Kind of a lose lose really. They have an even more aggressive early game then the early game faction.

You know don't how to play allies then, allies need to stick together in early game, no lone squads or you bleed, get to the important buildings (even at the cost of no cap with the first squad) and keep them and stick to good positions, after 3 squads you can start assaulting them and always focus the sturms. There you go.

Also if the map is close range use shocks or rangers, they will rape sturms all day everyday.


I didn't know rangers came in at 0 cp. Also you are thinking of Wermacht and maybe Brits, USF and Soviets are supposed to spread and cap the map with their superior numbers. However against OKW you are forced to bunch up your units and move around in case you get jumped by a stormpio and a kubel. Hey look they even encourage you to blob against OKW more.
15 Feb 2016, 19:13 PM
#53
avatar of Sirlami
Donator 11

Posts: 422 | Subs: 3

I think on some maps the Stormpois can be super oppressive, you combine that with a kubel and they can actually shut you out on some maps. I really hate it. People say to stick together but if there's a building by the fuel point you will give it up by waiting.


The problem is not sturms, but the kubel that costs 0 fuel and can cap.

If I have Rears in the building they die horribly to a point blank storm pio. Kind of a lose lose really. They have an even more aggressive early game then the early game faction.


rear's die to anything, just use them to occupy the buildings until a rifle squad can come take it's place. You can hop out and in and just repeat that to avoid mp bleed while you wait for the rifles in some cases.



I didn't know rangers came in at 0 cp. Also you are thinking of Wermacht and maybe Brits, USF and Soviets are supposed to spread and cap the map with their superior numbers. However against OKW you are forced to bunch up your units and move around in case you get jumped by a stormpio and a kubel. Hey look they even encourage you to blob against OKW more.



No, soviets and usf are not supposed to spread out even against wehr early game. (tho maxims can do that easily :snfPeter: ) Okw is a blob faction and you counter it by blobbing more and getting pressure with light vehicles.
15 Feb 2016, 19:29 PM
#54
avatar of Jespe

Posts: 190

Just wondering Kubel as it is now as a starting unit not able to build Spio until second tier/building they could still do anything as before BUT if they cannot repair kubel until they hit the next stage.

It would penalize "drive it like you stole it" mentality with it for the first couple of minutes...

Edit: apparently there would be need some changes to spios and volks too...
15 Feb 2016, 19:32 PM
#55
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

The only okw issue is their infantry play revolving around blobs, and no counter to lol Maxim.

1st Spio is only an issue if you play poorly, so just l2p


+1

Also;. OKW is designed to be a SMALL but ELITE ARMY...not a freaking blobfest. Hell, even the KT is a useless overpriced crap.

For the SP...its fine, only the repair time bug needs to be fixed.
15 Feb 2016, 19:53 PM
#56
avatar of MarkedRaptor

Posts: 320

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 19:13 PMSirlami


The problem is not sturms, but the kubel that costs 0 fuel and can cap.


rear's die to anything, just use them to occupy the buildings until a rifle squad can come take it's place. You can hop out and in and just repeat that to avoid mp bleed while you wait for the rifles in some cases.


No, soviets and usf are not supposed to spread out even against wehr early game. (tho maxims can do that easily :snfPeter: ) Okw is a blob faction and you counter it by blobbing more and getting pressure with light vehicles.


You might be right that the Kubel is the nail in the coffin. Since they don't really have to pay for having such an early game start like that.

Sadly Stormpio's murdered my rears in the building before the rifles got there. After a while he was able to get in from rapidly clicking the building, being point blank and all.

Those two factions can totally spread out against Ostheer, I'm talking super early game here so like the Ostheer would have a pio and an MG. Of course you'd start moving in packs when you can. Early game you have the lenience to spread out and cap before that. Not against OKW
15 Feb 2016, 19:56 PM
#57
avatar of Captain QQ

Posts: 365

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 18:50 PMSirlami
Captain qq you dont know what you are talking about, please stop already.

And why arent you rushing the fuel? You can make it before the spios if you don't stop to cap.

This is just one big l2p issue, absolutely no need to whine about it on the forums.


The whole point I'm making is that the 1 con and 1 engi STILL cannot win over a spio about 80% of the time. EVEN IF I RUSH MY FUEL. You just assume I am stupid to make your "argument" sound like it is coming from a position of knowledge when in fact you are either willfully misrepresenting my position or you can't converse like an adult.
15 Feb 2016, 20:31 PM
#58
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617



The whole point I'm making is that the 1 con and 1 engi STILL cannot win over a spio about 80% of the time. EVEN IF I RUSH MY FUEL. You just assume I am stupid to make your "argument" sound like it is coming from a position of knowledge when in fact you are either willfully misrepresenting my position or you can't converse like an adult.


Or you should learn to micro. SPs were never an issue vs good players.

End of story.
15 Feb 2016, 20:47 PM
#59
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470



Or you should learn to micro. SPs were never an issue vs good players.

End of story.


it's not an issue of micro. for the first 30 seconds the spio will win any encounter, provided the user has a modicum of sense and doesn't try to charge IS or riflemen in green cover from max range.

it basically guarantees OKW any building on the map. same shit happens with pios, CEs, or RETs though, either by trying to fight with a shitty unit or by building your t1 and letting them have that first 30 seconds for free.
15 Feb 2016, 21:08 PM
#60
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



The whole point I'm making is that the 1 con and 1 engi STILL cannot win over a spio about 80% of the time. EVEN IF I RUSH MY FUEL. You just assume I am stupid to make your "argument" sound like it is coming from a position of knowledge when in fact you are either willfully misrepresenting my position or you can't converse like an adult.


So don't rush your fuel.

We all agree SP that early with the Kubel behind is a problem but you can easily overcome it by capping everywhere else.

Plus, with practice you pretty much know where you can send safely your capping unit, where you'll have the advantage etc...
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