M36 Jackson

Opinion: The M36 Jackson is a lackluster TD that can only deal with T3 Wehr decently, has no chance against heavier armor, is overly expensive, and under performing.

Issues: The Jackson relies predominantly on speed to allow it to do its damage. It is so lightly armored and has such a low health pool it simply cannot afford to take hits. Add to this multiple German units have ways to stun, gun lock, or shock the unit, and you have a unit that is near useless in the late game. Add to this path finding woes and it is nearly impossible, even for a great player, to micro it to deal with late game German armor. On the other hand its high impact shells are quite a deterrent for vet 0 German armor, which struggles to close in quickly enough to kill it. Against the super heavies the Wolverine is a far better option because of its much increased health pool. The Jackson is impotent in that it can never afford to push to kill a tank because one AT shot will place it in a dangerous situation. Therefore, its speed advantage is of limited value. As German tanks get Blitz they can easily close the distance and keep up with the Jackson making its escape extremely unlikely, and completely negating its higher speed.

Why this is an issue: The USF relies on lighter AT than its Axis counterparts, using multiple units in a single area to outnumber and destroy better German units. In the late game, Axis units are so much more powerful per shot that units like the Jackson cannot outnumber them because of their high investment cost and the danger it poses to your army to be so unbalanced. More troubling, it fills the role as the only reliable AT unit in the late game where indirect fire is plentiful and squad weapons are very vulnerable to wipes. It also depends upon vet 1 for reliable penetration of many German tanks.

Solution: I don't think I have one, but I would like to see the Jackson become a real threat to heavy German armor, even if that meant locking it behind further upgrades to delay its appearance. Probably it needs one or more of the following: more armor, heavy crush (to help pathing), higher penetration (to ensure frontal YOLO attacks against it are punished), deeper health pool.

Thoughts and ideas welcome.

Deflection damage.

Nothing can beat jp4 when it comes to td power (even jagd is questionable).

I would like to see heavy crash and maybe more pen, but i have to say, arp rounds already turn jackson into monster (however, not without downsides, it extremely annoying to spam attacks into targets to not lose them in a fow because activated arp rounds remove vehicle priority).

Also, side armor would be good, but game engine probably too limited to allow it introduction.

Deflection damage plus reduced target size maybe? It'd be nice to see a USF get a better answer for heavy armor.

I think that jackson could use a range buff

its great in 1v1 i love it but cant use anywhere else.

Usf is nothing in team games; if you dont have calliope. Usf needs real things to respond german late game

I think part of the problem is that its sometimes hard to make full use of Jackson's range due to general lack of spotters for USF - only Pathfinders and M20 - which are either doctrinal or Tech dependent (and M20 isn't exactly cheap to buy as a late game spotter).

It couldn't hurt if Jackson got a SU-85 style self-spotting ability. It would make them a better TD and be an indirect survivability buff seeing as how you can keep them farther back from the front line.

yeah self spotting and maybe 65 range would be great

I feel like the Jackson's mostly okay, though its another unit that suffers from pathing issues. Heavy crush would be a good way to fix it. Statwise though, I think its fine, especially considering it only costs as much as a Panzer 4.

Personally, I think the issue is with the fact that the Jackson is the only unit the USF has to deal with heavies, unlike other factions who's AT guns are much more reliable later on.

The jackson self is fine, pathing is the real issue

Pathing has nothing to do with shots bouncing off of heavy axis armour late game.

I wish they would just bring the 57 mm's performance in line with other ATGs. If they did that, USF wouldn't need to rely on the (arguably) under-performing Jackson so much.

I think we've seen way too many high level casts where if USF doesn't win in the early and mid-game (specifically killing the first Axis P4), they tend to lose in the late game because there's nothing to be done when OKW or OST hits a certain critical mass of armor. Any combination of a Tiger / KT + Panzer IV or Panther is huge trouble for USF that simply doesn't have the units to deal with this much armor and firepower barring lucky mine hits (which they don't even have most of the time except M20).

I would be fine with heavy crush + increased penetration. I think most USF players learned long ago that flanking / diving w/ the Jackson is pretty much a no-go, and you just have to use it defensively to keep Axis armor at bay until you are absolutely 100% sure you can move in for the kill. So more health and armor is meh but would be nice if it penetrated the frontal armor of OKW P4's / KT / Panthers more often.

Patching has nothing to do with shots bouncing off of heavy axis armour late game.

Hvap, still find it stupid that usf has to pay for armor pen.

I lost more jacksons to pathing then anything else, jacksons like to do full 180's in the middle of a field for no reason

Jackson are fine imho, problem is:
1- heavies and super heavies one shotting riflesquads so it is impossible to spot for the jackson.
2- Super heavies like Elephant and Sturmtiger which USF has strictly nothing to counter.

To help with point 1: give USF a goddamn loitering reco run, simple: the Major one's. So Jackson can shot from range and you do not need to send to death 1 or 2 RM squads every time.
To help with point 2: I have no idea. Increase the stun probability with HVAP rounds?

Jackson is fine due to damage, penetration (not sure why people say it doesn't cut it, does in my games) and incredible HVAP round. Added that it is a turreted TD it has increased versatility and can flank more effectively than other tank destroyers. Not to mention a Jackson isn't useless once flanked unlike other TDs. Sure it's fragile but getting everything above it's a fine trade. If a enemy axis player has rushed your Jackson, destroyed it, than left you've messed up. Takes only one anti-grenade to get engine damage to slow down that Panther and rain shots with Jackson and Bazookas. (Flank with zookas and scoot and shoot yea dob!) Admitally Elefants and Jagdtigers pose an issue but considering USF infantry got buffed and the enemy sacrificed a chunk of pop cap for a heavy TD, using a heavy infantry oriented army isn't that big of a deal.

Jackson needs a 90MM FEST OF DOOM ability after vet1 or vet2 enabling it to fire 2 shells in a quick 2 seconds succession at the cost of 50 Muni.

Jackson is fine due to damage, penetration (not sure why people say it doesn't cut it, does in my games) and incredible HVAP round. Added that it is a turreted TD it has increased versatility and can flank more effectively than other tank destroyers. Not to mention a Jackson isn't useless once flanked unlike other TDs. Sure it's fragile but getting everything above it's a fine trade. If a enemy axis player has rushed your Jackson, destroyed it, than left you've messed up. Takes only one anti-grenade to get engine damage to slow down that Panther and rain shots with Jackson and Bazookas. (Flank with zookas and scoot and shoot yea dob!) Admitally Elefants and Jagdtigers pose an issue but considering USF infantry got buffed and the enemy sacrificed a chunk of pop cap for a heavy TD, using a heavy infantry oriented army isn't that big of a deal.

I disagree strongly. The penetration does not reliably penetrate Panthers, and the Jackson is a TD dependent on scaring away its victims since any unit that close with it will beat it. This on top of the fact that it has 0 AI ability so it has to be amazing at its one job.

Trading a Jackson for a P4, plus the added cost in munitions pushes the trade well in favor of the German player.

Additional note, the USF has no ability to chase injured tanks, they always escape because the Jackson cannot follow. The Jackson needs to be able to pose a threat to late game tanks because of its technical depth within the USF tech tree and the very limited options outside of it.

Its a difficult one to work out really.

There's also the added threat of the ever present shreks so you really have to play it carefully, with the jackson there is no real margin for error.

I wish they would just bring the 57 mm's performance in line with other ATGs. If they did that, USF wouldn't need to rely on the (arguably) under-performing Jackson so much.

I think we've seen way too many high level casts where if USF doesn't win in the early and mid-game (specifically killing the first Axis P4), they tend to lose in the late game because there's nothing to be done when OKW or OST hits a certain critical mass of armor. Any combination of a Tiger / KT + Panzer IV or Panther is huge trouble for USF that simply doesn't have the units to deal with this much armor and firepower barring lucky mine hits (which they don't even have most of the time except M20).

I would be fine with heavy crush + increased penetration. I think most USF players learned long ago that flanking / diving w/ the Jackson is pretty much a no-go, and you just have to use it defensively to keep Axis armor at bay until you are absolutely 100% sure you can move in for the kill. So more health and armor is meh but would be nice if it penetrated the frontal armor of OKW P4's / KT / Panthers more often.

keep in mind tho that you need to nerf to the usf early game if you buff the mid-lategame, because usf isnt in a bad spot right now at all. if you buff mid-late and leave early game it will make them stronger than their counterparts.

but i never see a jackson to be honest..

Compare jackson to SU-85 Its actually a great TD, would say the best one if comet wasn't better. Maybe we are just simply spoiled with ukf tanks now?