Sov vs OKW: Broken Match up

Am I missing something or is OKW blatantly broken against Soviet? Conscripts are no match for volksgrenadiers, especially with sturmpios backing them up. This gives them a huge early game advantage, allowing him to shit out Mg34's while teching to afk in houses in convenient spots on the map. If he doesn't shit out a Luchs or Puma to counter your entire mid game, all he has to do is build up a nice amount of panzer schrecks and say good bye to any light/med vehicle play.

Basically his manpower goes way the fuck farther than yours does early game, and the availability of the Puma or Luchs means you have to tech to AT. Which requires you to delay any vehicles + spend manpower on AT gun. He can just build panzerschrecks that have no tech and end up making your volks even better vs conscripts due to vet gain from hitting vehicles.

He even gets a flame nade which puts molotov to shame.

I'm just at my wits end here. It just seems like OKW has every advantage over Soviet right now. I've even tried some fast tech builds but pschrecks are still enough to hard counter your light vehicles. All he has to do is mass up 2-3 squads and attack your cutoff at that point.

The only thing I could see working is using doctrinal stuff like PPSH or Shocktroops to give you an advantage vs the volks. But I'm trying to make the core army units work and I can't do it.

What do you guys think? Am I just missing some meta counter-strat by overthinking things or is this match up biased in OKW's favour in a big way?

Here's an example replay of what I've been trying:

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  VS

  Dullahan

  NomaFans

  Fast Tech Sov Strats

  by: Dullahan map: Langreskaya

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+1, 100% Agree. At least they can defeat the Wehrmacht though .

PS. Try maxim spam.

I think the popular strategy to counter OKW as Soviets is to spam Maxims and other MG's. Like...I think that's the only choice?

get a dushka

primary problems are,

-Soviet T1 sucks, penals are really only good for nuking garrisoned MGs.. Which OKW don't have.

-Soviet T2 is HARD countered by Volks/sturms if they get a free grenade off or a flank.

-20 second head start, all the WFA+ factions start with combat units while the originals have trash. So they get dibs on all the good positions (buildings).



So yeah.. Spam maxims.. And have one cover your butt.. It's really all ya can do.

I think another reason why Maxims are the only optional choice is because of the fact that it can cover each other while easily pinning volks/strums faster due to numerical superiority with suprression units. Something that the OKW can't easily counter since they don't have an MG to support their troops, unless captured Maxims or MG34.

get a dushka

Shh don't tell em' about mah op DShK its becoming quickly my favorite mg.

Get 3 maxims and try not to ever lose them. I find conscripts quite worthless at fighting, and only good for merge and AT nade. Use them to merge your maxims if they drop models, then maybe get 2 guard squads (WITH DP!) and make sure to have an AT gun and AT nades by 6:30 in the game to counter a luchs. Having one or two 120mm mortar also helps a lot.

Get 3 maxims and try not to ever lose them. I find conscripts quite worthless at fighting, and only good for merge and AT nade. Use them to merge your maxims if they drop models, then maybe get 2 guard squads (WITH DP!) and make sure to have an AT gun and AT nades by 6:30 in the game to counter a luchs. Having one or two 120mm mortar also helps a lot.

120mm mortars at 13 popcap is broken. But everything else is good!

My usual build order is:
maxim (x3)
conscript (x2)
AT gun (if fuel isn't cut)
T3
T70

Alternatively, ZSU is good against blobs for suppression, can help if you're being flanked a lot and need mobile suppression against those flanking squads.

You can lose the game if you get medics instead of ZiS gun, for example, so it's important to be aware, but I'm sure you already know that Dullahan.

Basically, the idea is to think of Maxims as the main infantry squads while any traditional infantry squads are there for support.

Also, I'm not aware how players tend to do this, but right clicking maxims to place w/out setting them up can be useful 9/10 times because the maxim will auto face the first target.
With good micro you just suppress, move back, then fire at the volks again.
But having a second or third maxim around to suppress pins squads faster and allows you to suppress more squads as well.

In general, Shock Rifle Frontline is good with this tactic. I had a bunch of replays from December but got patched out In general I would get 3 SU76s from T3, then just wait for IS2. It may be easier to do this same strat w/ Armored Assault (because of radio intercept), but then you lose the elite, high dps shock troops.

I also like to get a second engineer to put mines everywhere. In front of doors is quite good especially on certain maps with dominant buildings. It's a savage tactic but it can make ppl rage when their first falls squad gets wiped by a TM-35 or even a trip wire flare

120mm mortars at 13 popcap is broken. But everything else is good!

My usual build order is:
maxim (x3)
conscript (x2)
AT gun (if fuel isn't cut)
T3
T70

Alternatively, ZSU is good against blobs for suppression, can help if you're being flanked a lot and need mobile suppression against those flanking squads.

You can lose the game if you get medics instead of ZiS gun, for example, so it's important to be aware, but I'm sure you already know that Dullahan.

Basically, the idea is to think of Maxims as the main infantry squads while any traditional infantry squads are there for support.

Also, I'm not aware how players tend to do this, but right clicking maxims to place w/out setting them up can be useful 9/10 times because the maxim will auto face the first target.
With good micro you just suppress, move back, then fire at the volks again.
But having a second or third maxim around to suppress pins squads faster and allows you to suppress more squads as well.

In general, Shock Rifle Frontline is good with this tactic. I had a bunch of replays from December but got patched out In general I would get 3 SU76s from T3, then just wait for IS2. It may be easier to do this same strat w/ Armored Assault (because of radio intercept), but then you lose the elite, high dps shock troops.

I also like to get a second engineer to put mines everywhere. In front of doors is quite good especially on certain maps with dominant buildings. It's a savage tactic but it can make ppl rage when their first falls squad gets wiped by a TM-35 or even a trip wire flare

With good micro this tactic works. I approve

problem with SU vs OKW is, maxim spam etc can work, but it requires 400% more micro than the OKW player, and much more risky. The match up in general is broken and OKW always has the upper hand.

Early game vs OKW is Maxims or bust. Conscript spam gets outmuscled by Sturms and Ubervolks, Penals are too expensive for what they do and scale badly, sniper is too expensive, and M3 is Shreck fodder, and going T1 leaves you wide open for Luchs butthurt anyway.

SO what I do is get 2 conscripts (for capture/AT nadin') and 2 Maxims, 3 if I suspect some serious Volksblob action. If I am on an urban map, sometimes I get a 3rd Script for eventual PPSHs, but more often I transition into AT nades and AT gun fast to counter the Luchs, with Guards serving as my frontline units.

It's still a crapshoot, and I think the matchup favors OKW, but winning is doable.

Early game vs OKW is Maxims or bust. Conscript spam gets outmuscled by Sturms and Ubervolks, Penals are too expensive for what they do and scale badly, sniper is too expensive, and M3 is Shreck fodder, and going T1 leaves you wide open for Luchs butthurt anyway.

SO what I do is get 2 conscripts (for capture/AT nadin') and 2 Maxims, 3 if I suspect some serious Volksblob action. If I am on an urban map, sometimes I get a 3rd Script for eventual PPSHs, but more often I transition into AT nades and AT gun fast to counter the Luchs, with Guards serving as my frontline units.

It's still a crapshoot, and I think the matchup favors OKW, but winning is doable.

What urban maps in 1v1? Sturzdorf?
veto it.
La Gleize Breakcout?
veto it.

Unless if your strat is to spam shocks/cons w/ ppsh, you're going to have a tough time with maxims. Every faction has a tough time in urban maps because the time required to move units out of danger is dramatically decreased because of building entry/exit times and los blockers.

Spamming Conscripts hasn't been effective for a few months now. Maybe with Advanced Warfare you can pull it off but it's just a huge mp drain.

There is a reason why 100% of soviet players go for maxim spam.

Its the only infantry capable of scaling and fighting axis infantry without the need to commit yourself to a doctrine like all other armies can.

I would tend to agree with this.

A lot of people talk about spamming maxims as the only viable counter, which in itself shows just how ridiculous this situation is.

I think with some clever play you can mitigate a volk blob somewhat. I tend to go Is2 and shocks (whatever commander called...) and hiding an At gun or two with hold fire and camo to spot for an AA Ht in the back is quite good then cleaning up on retreat with some shocks can wipe a squad or 2. This is also good for when they come to get the Ht with armour. Wait for the first penetrating shot then take out the fucking drive chain!

it's not just Volks being so effective either that's a problem. I've played quite a few 1s lately where I've taken out a Luchs then a panther only to find a Stuka in the back (which can game you if you don't watch all those maxims!) then a KT rolling out and sitting on a VP but I'm so drained for MP that I have to cling to my IS2 like it's the only one left! (Nothing better than manually aiming that sucker just in front of a blob).

There seems to be little to no risk, strategy wise, for the OKW in the early game and now they don't suffer from a late game shortage either. The number of players YOLO'ing armour into ambushes is perverse and only illustrates how little thought the current design for the faction dictates.

What I always wondered also. Why on the graph of army value do the OKW start above everyone else?

Two or three Snipers into Guards used to be pretty popular. Is that still viable?

That said, I agree that the OKW is advantaged against Soviets - although Soviets boast higher win rates in 1v1. Main problem is still the Panzershreck blob imo.

spam maxim... end of story

problem with SU vs OKW is, maxim spam etc can work, but it requires 400% more micro than the OKW player, and much more risky. The match up in general is broken and OKW always has the upper hand.

Maximspam requires micro now?

i've been playing with maxims the wrong way all this time

@OP
Spam maxims, fast tech to t3, get a light vehicle (preferrably luchs)
That breaks okw.

Without maxims/dhsk, well you're gonna have a bad time.
With it tho, it's a snorefest.

Maximspam requires micro now?

i've been playing with maxims the wrong way all this time

@OP
Spam maxims, fast tech to t3, get a light vehicle (preferrably luchs)
That breaks okw.

Without maxims/dhsk, well you're gonna have a bad time.
With it tho, it's a snorefest.

Playercard pls.

Thunderhun