How to use Su-85

Everyone is saying that they are OP.

They are good, but why are people complaining ? How are people using them to be so good ?

I find they can get circled very easily.

Better range and longer vision than other tanks (I keep focused vision on pretty much all the time) are the key factors that make it really strong. It also has above average penetration (it can easily destroy any tank weaker than a panther) and surprisingly strong defense.

I don't necessarily think it's OP, but it's certainly very frustrating for the German player. It forces them to avoid any fight where the SU-85 can sit in the back and snipe down tanks. Combined with other Soviet advantages (good AT guns and cheap, effective mines) it's very difficult to play around.

I really don't have an issues with SU-85. They do not deserve a nerf in any shape of form.

Rid them of guard/conscript infantry support and they are so easy to circle. Not to mention clever use of smoke can absolutely cause havoc on SU85's.

if you know how to drive them in reverse they become true tank assassins. but then again it requires skill with the u key and looking back and fort

...

SU-85 should be a pure tank destroyer, so it must have reduced effectiveness against infantry
StugII is a support tank that must have increased effectiveness against infantry

SU85 is pretty okay actually.. a good tank destroyer.

yeah, it is good, I just don't find it OP

As soon as a Vehicle touches a Cheap ass Russian mine (25) or AT Nade the SU-85 can roll up and pot shot all day without any return fire. Literally no tank in the game has the same range as a SU-85 and as such with the line of sight bonus they are unstoppable tank destroyers. The best thing is at Vet 2 they can 2 Shot Stugs or 4 shot Panthers.

If for a second you think anyone would leave an SU-85 undefended I would love some form of replay proof of a good player doing so.

The problem with the SU-85 can be summed it easily.

Cheap - 320MP / 115 Fuel.

Fast - Can chase down and kill any tank ingame at the moment.

Line of Sight - Has an extreme line of sight which causes it to act like Firefly's used to, it can fire on enemies and regardless if the enemy is in range to fire back - They won't.

Damaging - You feel it if one of your armoured units is shot by one of these.

Penetrating - You will rarely see the SU-85 fail to penetrate the front of a PIV/Ostwind/Stug/Panther/Brumbar, they only "Struggle" if you can call it that against Tigers. Two SU-85s will absolutely hammer a Tiger into the ground without taking losses, for the same cost.

Accuracy vs Infantry - This needs addresing, I know it's extremley unlikely but i had an unvetted PG with a Shreck die to one shot from a SU-85, which effectively cost the game as I could not simply spare 360 MP / 120 Munitions to such "Luck".

Myself & several other partners have played 2's consistently as Russian & Osteer and they are simply overpowered for there cost. This is obviously more noticable in 2's but in my experience in 1v1 SU-85s deny armour useage just as much.

Just to back my post up with some facts:

SU-85:
- Price from 440mp/90 fuel to 320mp/115 fuel
- Pop from 11 to 8
- Front armor from 160 to 180
- Increased acceleration and max speed from 2 to 2.4 and from 5 to 5.3
- Increased Area of Effect from 0.5m to 1m

This was the last changes made to the SU-85.

Price Nerf - Barely 25 Fuel =/= 110 Manpower
Population Buff - Nearly a 30% Decrease in Pop
Armour Buff - 11% Increase, because obviously the speed & gun weren't enough.
Speed Buff - Able to Speed up faster and higher top speed. IE Chase targets down.
AI Buff - 100% Increase in Area of Effect damage meaning more near miss infantry kills / multiple men dieing per shot.

They're excellent tank destroyers and deny an area against enemy armor. It's really better to treat Su-85 like the anti-tank gun fielded by troops: keep it supported and flanked by infantry or other lighter armors, put it back in the rear, and don't use it to find armor. I use it more as a reactive weapon than as a proactive one.

How it comes down to is me positioning the Su-85 way behind the lines. Once I see enemy armor rolling into that line, I disable its engine with AT grenades from conscripts, and that's when I push my Su-85 such that it can fire at its max range.

Ah my strategy exactly 1 85 supported by two conscript squads, this is a very good strategy but incase you germans think its op you may want to check the corner of your p4's they have this crazy blitz ability that get this makes them go faster... now maybe your not smart enough to use that ability but just because you cant play doesn't mean something's overpowered.

Oh! and get this the germans have these troops with these things called tank fists that do samething as at nades... I don't know if you've ever tried to get one of those sons of bitches to turn at a tank when it has been engine damaged but I don't think ive ever won a tank v tank battle if the engine was damaged. if you don't want to lose your tanks so easily don't keep plowing straight into conscript squads... that's like driving a clown car into a triple at gun battery.

Everyone is saying that they are OP.

They are good, but why are people complaining ? How are people using them to be so good ?

I find they can get circled very easily.

Who's everyone? And yes they are OP as it means Russians have atleast one tank that can fight the Nazi bully tanks and they don't like tanks that can stand up to them.

This thing is "OP" only with high numbers and its support, but anyway if Soviet can have these stuff, Ostheer deserve to lose anyway

Ah my strategy exactly 1 85 supported by two conscript squads, this is a very good strategy but incase you germans think its op you may want to check the corner of your p4's they have this crazy blitz ability that get this makes them go faster... now maybe your not smart enough to use that ability but just because you cant play doesn't mean something's overpowered.

Oh! and get this the germans have these troops with these things called tank fists that do samething as at nades... I don't know if you've ever tried to get one of those sons of bitches to turn at a tank when it has been engine damaged but I don't think ive ever won a tank v tank battle if the engine was damaged. if you don't want to lose your tanks so easily don't keep plowing straight into conscript squads... that's like driving a clown car into a triple at gun battery.

This is exactly the kind of half-baked, insane response I've come to expect from Soviet players when defending their precious SU-85s. Yes, Panzer IVs get blitz (so do Ostwinds, Panthers, and Tigers) but guess what... that's a veteran ability. It is not available the second the tank enters the map. The SU-85s ability to scout for itself? Not so much.

Yes, Grenadiers get panzerfausts which are the equivalent of the Conscript's AT grenades but when was the last time your SU-85 had to charge an infantry-supported German tank and circle it just to stand a snowball's chance? That's right. Never. Supporting a tank that gets to sit back and snipe is an entirely different beast than supporting a tank that has to rush forward or flank. So if the SU-85 never even has to enter the Axis tank's gun range, never mind the panzerfaust range, what good are the fausts? Infantry obviously can't keep up with a rushing German tank, and they have no chance of chasing down an SU-85 and getting into faust range so the only option is to send the infantry in first but that's tricky too. Even IF the SU-85's supporting conscripts don't spot the flanking grenadiers, the grens will still (for some retarded reason I don't understand) fire their rifles at the SU-85 thus revealing their position and giving the SU-85 time to either back away or turn and shoot, possibly killing some of the infantry or, at the very least, forcing the entire squad to hug the ground for a few seconds, completely negating any chance the infantry had of getting a panzerfaust off.

So, for the low, low price of 115 fuel, Soviets get armor that can scout for itself at maximum gun range, reliably (ridiculously) penetrate the frontal armor of any Axis vehicle (the 85mm on the SU-85 could only penetrate 110mm of armor at 90 degrees from 500m, not enough to ever penetrate the 120mm of 90 degree armor on a Tiger. Certainly not enough to ever penetrate the sloped frontal armor on the Panther (http://www.wwiivehicles.com/ussr/guns.asp)), can easily dictate the range of the engagement with its ridiculous acceleration and speed (both forward and reverse), and kills infantry to top it all off. How, exactly, is this not overpowered??

Meanwhile, the only reliable counter the Axis get to the SU-85 is the Ferdinand/Elefant which is a doctrinal unit, requires 5cp ((too) late game), costs 600mp and 260 fuel (more than twice the cost of the unit it counters), and is about as fast as molasses would be on the Eastern front in winter. The PaK43 could theoretically work, but it's 480mp arty bait.

The long and short of it is this: It takes FAR less skill and resources to use an SU-85 than it does to counter it. Any half-brained nitwit can micro an SU-85. Meanwhile, to counter it, the German player has to get a tank into range while microing it to keep it away from the gun end of the SU-85 and the conscripts with AT grenades or the guards with button. (Button.. another ridiculous ability for the Soviets.. an LMG blinding/disabling the driver, gunner, and commander of a tank? It shouldn't do more than force the top gunner (if any) to button down inside the vehicle.)

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the real problem here. The su-85 is the only effective (and yes cost-effective) method of dealing with Ostheer T3.

Sure you can go T2 for an AT gun, but you sacrifice your early game map control vs MGs and grens to play safe vs the inevitable T3. Maxim now gets dominated by rifle nades due to the nerf, leaving a weak MG team with no staying power. In my experience of rushing T4 with even map control, the p4/ostwind arrives around the same time as the su-85.

Going T1-T3 leaves no viable AT, this is a win only if you demolish all infantry with T70..So the linear teching is an issue. It's either T2-T3 or T1-T4. If the T34 performed half as good as the Sherman or M10 in coh1 vs a P4, i think this would be a non-issue.

Like being able to up-gun a T34/76 to T34/86 in comparison to the Sherman up-gun would be useful. This would also give Russians the ability to dispense some of the munition surplus. All in all, I think a viable T1-T3 tech option would alleviate the predictable occurrence of this scenario.

This thing is "OP" only with high numbers and its support, but anyway if Soviet can have these stuff, Ostheer deserve to lose anyway

The fuck are you smoking, they come only 1 minute later than a T34/76.

And they are OP because they have ridiculous armor and insanely fast reverse speed. If you can position and micro them well, they will just reverse away from any tanks trying to rush them and bounce almost every shot off front armor. If SU85 is dying to anything other than a Elephant, Pak43, or Shrek blob, it is player error. Fireflies in vcoh encouraged rushing because of the low health and slower short range fire rate, but there is no incentive to rush SUs unless you are outnumbering him 3-4:1

The fuck are you smoking, they come only 1 minute later than a T34/76.

And they are OP because they have ridiculous armor and insanely fast reverse speed. If you can position and micro them well, they will just reverse away from any tanks trying to rush them and bounce almost every shot off front armor. If SU85 is dying to anything other than a Elephant, Pak43, or Shrek blob, it is player error. Fireflies in vcoh encouraged rushing because of the low health and slower short range fire rate, but there is no incentive to rush SUs unless you are outnumbering him 3-4:1

Pretty much this. Also their timing comes right around ostheer tier 3 which can really be depressing. You think you've got the game in the bag? You've been beating down your opponent and he shouldn't be able to tech to a counter against your PIV or Ostwind (and stug if you're feeling brave)? Ah, theres that su-85 right on time