Ostheer is on life support

Ostheer when on defense... roflmao

Artillery cover

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I'm not sure how this thread got so much post nor why it's bugged (Relic Coh2org plz fix)

Anyway, commenting regarding the first post.

222:
I'll start with this:
-Coaxial MG now has 10 degree traverse to the left, right, and up.
-Coaxial MG Reload from 6/6.5 to 4/4.5.
-2cm autocannon accuracy at far from 0.025 to 0.03
-Moving accuracy of the 2cm accuracy from 0.5 to 0.75
-Coaxial MG now gains accuracy bonuses with veterancy.
-222 autocannon can now attack ground.

Anything else, is a matter that the 222 is a freaking scout car, not a light tank. I don't see OH as having as much problem against the M20 (222) or Stuart (not so great AI wise). Aec problem is timing.

Cromwell:
I'm not gonna make the math, but i believe that it's a tad too fast. Even when we have now a valid working strat with the Aec, i do think that sidegrades are not as effective as just rushing the Cromwell. Adjustment could be made on this.

Panther + Tiger:
It's fine.

What i think it could benefit many tanks and i'm not sure if it can be implemented, is that when you issue a vehicle prioritization, the MGs shouldn't be disabled. This is specially an issue on the Panther, which i don't want it to make pot shots at infantry, but i do want the MG to damage otherwise.

Hi Cookies. I can see what you are saying, but I feel like this wasn't as big of a problem before the AEC buff. The AEC is the gross vehicle that comes out at like 5:30-6:00 minutes. I'm not sure how I'd feel about the 222 being capable of damaging vehicles like the stuart or the M20.

Reason for this is because I'm not sure how USF would ever counter that damn sniper if it wasn't for their access to strong light vehicles. However Ostheer clearly gets rolled the hardest by light vehicles.

At the same time Ostheer peformed very strongly in those tournaments. I don't know, I say the problem stems from the AEC, touch that first and see what happens. Even when I use the AEC I feel bad for my opponent as it pounds them into fine dust.

It's the AEC yes but don't forget the quad Stuart combo of P2W.

Also, I'd rather see all snipers deleted and damned to hell with nerf bats but that's a whole nother thread.

Its not like USF would lose their vehicles. Again theory crafting, but They'd likely still have the vehicle advantage in timing and every ting else. The p3 would just prevent it from snowballing for so long. #remeber the stooge spam? It helped with the light vehicle cheese and infantry swarms, as much as allied players hated it.

I'll check the casts too. And I guess no one will get on board with panther and tiger buffs. 4v4 still Allied playground then Kappaaa.

I still think Ostheer is forever dammed to always feeling like the pressure and heat is on them, therefore making them undesirable in tournament level play until they get a light vehicle of their own. "Playing axis" shouldn't feel like a chore or underdog role. Regardless of whether I need to l2p or not, that's the way it seems right now.



And wow this thread is broken or I'm really popular.

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+1 to everything, and your AEC point is also something worth emphasizing.

AEC timing is probably making it appear a lot worse than it really is. If it stayed as is but came at 7m instead of 5:30m, that alone would give a lot of breathing room to Ostheer.

HAHAHAHAH jesus, no wonder this game was a mess for so long, you people are delusional.

wehr is still strong as hell, best faction by far if played by someone who knows all factions since it can adapt so fast using it wide range of units.

222 weak? HAHAHAHA wow! someone need to start playing soviets and losing it's 70 fuel vehicles to a single mine, faust or pak, then you gonna see what's weak.

And don't even get start on snipers, mg and the laser guided mortar.

It's the AEC yes but don't forget the quad Stuart combo of P2W.

Also, I'd rather see all snipers deleted and damned to hell with nerf bats but that's a whole nother thread.

Its not like USF would lose their vehicles. Again theory crafting, but They'd likely still have the vehicle advantage in timing and every ting else. The p3 would just prevent it from snowballing for so long. #remeber the stooge spam? It helped with the light vehicle cheese and infantry swarms, as much as allied players hated it.

I'll check the casts too. And I guess no one will get on board with panther and tiger buffs. 4v4 still Allied playground then Kappaaa.

I still think Ostheer is forever dammed to always feeling like the pressure and heat is on them, therefore making them undesirable in tournament level play until they get a light vehicle of their own. "Playing axis" shouldn't feel like a chore or underdog role. Regardless of whether I need to l2p or not, that's the way it seems right now.



And wow this thread is broken or I'm really popular.

But what about SU, if OH got a potent early light vehicle like P3, imagine P3 + sniper will rekt SU so hard that cons spam will be the only way to go.

The whole penetration mechanic as a whole could use a rework, panthers armor is not that big of a factor anymore with mediums being buffed since there is no side armor nor balanced penetration falloff based on distance

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In any case, the 222 should at least be able to chase down snipers(it sucks dick at this) and counter some vehicles like the Quad and not be a free kill for T-70 or rifles. Of course with a cost increase included.

what are your sources for armor pen value?

Why would German sources not be correct vs... Soviet/USA/UK sources????
also, effective firing range on pak 43 was 4,000m. 88mm Flak gun was 14,860m, both of which are according to the wiki page. 75mm Pak 40 effective firing range was 1,800m, again, according to the wikipedia page.

222 is a scout car, not a light tank. For it to be on par with a light tank is just stupid.

Ostheer need a light tank (hotchkiss as some ppl are suggesting) or a panzer III medium tank w/ side tech in T2.

You can't have a fucking little car be able to fight enemy armor. It's stupid.

My point about armor penetration is that having super high pen on what is supposed to be specialized AP rounds while also having some mythical large explosion radius and damage against infantry. it's just stupid. It's got to be weighted one or the other or in the middle somewhere.

The fact of the matter is that all factions are able to be aggressive in the mid game. Mobility aids tremendously in allowing players to break out of positions and hit the enemy. The Ostheer doesn't have that. They've never had that and it's becoming and issue because of the potency of other factions' light vehicles in the mid game that cause ostheer to be both put on the defensive without any hope of an ability to counter attack with such degree of maneuverability that its opponents have.

But what about SU, if OH got a potent early light vehicle like P3, imagine P3 + sniper will rekt SU so hard that cons spam will be the only way to go.

maybe Soviet players could l2p, or uninstall. The game is western front now.

T70 could get a pen buff. The zis still is a zis. It's not like the panzer III was a Ferrari. It wouldn't be nearly as fast as an light tank, maybe a slightly slower medium.

Conscripts at nades + Oprah and guards still exist. Maybe m42 could have a role finally. Play that TOW mission where the PTRS is insanely good vs the early war P4... Soviets would be fine. If Ostheer sniper isn't EZ enough for soviets to countersnipe then give Soviet sniper Ostheer sniper cloak.

maybe Soviet players could l2p, or uninstall. The game is western front now.

T70 could get a pen buff. The zis still is a zis. It's not like the panzer III was a Ferrari. It wouldn't be nearly as fast as an light tank, maybe a slightly slower medium.

Conscripts at nades + Oprah and guards still exist. Maybe m42 could have a role finally. Play that TOW mission where the PTRS is insanely good vs the early war P4... Soviets would be fine. If Ostheer sniper isn't EZ enough for soviets to countersnipe then give Soviet sniper Ostheer sniper cloak.

I agree that this is still theory crafting but still I would like to do something other than going T2-T3 than call-in every game, some diversity for SU would be nice.

They all can't get a grasp of this pile of nonsense here.

HAHAHAHAH jesus, no wonder this game was a mess for so long, you people are delusional.

*checks playercards*

99% allied games.
5 total axis games for one
28 for the other.
Only one has a ranking for an axis faction and that one is far, far lower than his allied rankings.

*sigh*

Ok so I always play 2v2 so not sure if im able to comment on true balance but after coming back to the game after 12 months things ive noticed about Ostheer...

P4 gets owned by Cromwell - 5 shots not one penetrated WTF

Panther is weak

Tiger is weak

Shocktroops own pzg

Planting mines is risky when you need munitions for a shrek - your pak usually gets rolled by blob with smoke nullifying mg cover.

222 is pointless - How many do you see in top level games these days

Flamer half track is pointless - How many do you see in top level games these days

Ok so I always play 2v2 so not sure if im able to comment on true balance but after coming back to the game after 12 months things ive noticed about Ostheer...

P4 gets owned by Cromwell - 5 shots not one penetrated WTF

Panther is weak

Against infantry yeah

Tiger is weak

Shocktroops own pzg

Planting mines is risky when you need munitions for a shrek - your pak usually gets rolled by blob with smoke nullifying mg cover.

222 is pointless - How many do you see in top level games these days

Flamer half track is pointless - How many do you see in top level games these days

Cromwell has less armor than the panzer 4 as well as the same pen value.

The Tiger has better accuracy and reload time while the IS 2 has a larger splash damage and better armor (which is needed since it goes up against superior At, at-lease hand held). Both have trade offs and very similar pen values.

Did you see the match between Cuzz and Luvnest last sunday? A counter to maxim spam.

Im just saying S##t happens, this game has some horrific RNG especially this one time (people on the official forums may know what im saying).

*checks playercards*

99% allied games.
5 total axis games for one
28 for the other.
Only one has a ranking for an axis faction and that one is far, far lower than his allied rankings.

*sigh*

You didn't check mine. I still called out on the OP with the ludicrous claims. I like how nobody points that out. All SOV vehicles > panther? lol.

As for whoever mentioned a buff to the 22 scout car. Here's some values:

Coaxial turret 222 accuracy: .25 Far/ .60 Near
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=scout_car_mg34_pintle_generic_mp

M20 turret accuracy: .20 Far/ .75 Near
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=m20_utility_car_m2hb_50cal_mounted_mp

You can see already that a 15 fuel cost unit already has a higher far accuracy than the 20 fuel unit. This is the coaxial MG42 alone not including the 222 autocannon. I don't why people are unhappy that the scout car doesn't autokill a sniper when he's in range. I have to chase OST sniper all the way into his base too with an m20 to kill it.

Overall DPS of Far and Near are higher than the m20 for a cheaper cost too
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=scoutcar_sdkfz222_mp 210/15
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=m20_utility_car_squad_mp 340/20

I'm not sure where I can check moving accuracy but if someone can point that out to me. I'd be grateful.

Only adjustments needed are AEC rollout time (for balance). There's plenty of other useless units that need fixing too. The reason the thread is so popular is because of the bunch of ludicrous statements that require rebuttal. Not to mention OP put in a bunch of different units and you can see everyone is replying to different parts of the rant.

You didn't check mine. I still called out on the OP with the ludicrous claims. I like how nobody points that out. All SOV vehicles > panther? lol.

Since you ask so nicely, i checked your playercard.
And post history.

I especially liked the one where you told someone how play ostheer while having no more than 28 total axis games yourself.

As for cookie's claim about the panther, that might very well be wrong.
But that isn't the focus of this thread.

And the reason for this thread being so popular is because people who play ostheer (not you or the other 2 i mentioned) recognise the problem.
Which is lack of a light vehicle/tank that can keep with the other factions light vehicle's.

Looking forward to your reply...

I think the AEC is highlighting Ostheer vulnerability against light vehicles but apart from that, it's a solid faction.

Since you ask so nicely, i checked your playercard.
And post history.

I especially liked the one where you told someone how play ostheer while having no more than 28 total axis games yourself.

As for cookie's claim about the panther, that might very well be wrong.
But that isn't the focus of this thread.

And the reason for this thread being so popular is because people who play ostheer (not you or the other 2 i mentioned) recognise the problem.
Which is lack of a light vehicle/tank that can keep with the other factions light vehicle's.

Looking forward to your reply...

I'm sorry. I counted 555 OST games and 195 OKW games. And yes, I'm a 4v4 randumb heroes player
Oh sorry, that only included my 4v4 games. You can add up more with my 2v2, 3v3, and AT games.
So that counters paragraph 1 and 2.

When you start rambling nonsense, who's going to believe you? Credibility loss. It's important. I feel obligated to post when players rant and then relic does a stupid patch like triple nerf churchills. Yes, they deserved a nerf but 4 nerfs on the crocodile... HP, Armor, Cost, range. Good example of overnerf.

We recognize the problem but the Subject Post is extremely deceiving. First thought through my mind was EU Finals? Didn't OST win all 3 matches? OST is surely underperforming but that's a far cry from life support.

I'm sorry. I counted 555 OST games and 195 OKW games. And yes, I'm a 4v4 randumb heroes player

My bad, i forgot about the existence of randoms 4vs4.

Im sure that gives you enough knowlegde about the state of ostheer to talk about its balance...

Edit: oh you have randoms in 2vs2 and 3vs3 axis aswell? pity they dont show rank, since that indicates you haven't played them in over a month.

But who am i to judge you?

*checks playercards*

99% allied games.
5 total axis games for one
28 for the other.
Only one has a ranking for an axis faction and that one is far, far lower than his allied rankings.

*sigh*

hurrr durrr

I play axis only in private game against friends since I'm not a tryhard.

Playing wehr in automatch is a snorefest, just spam and a-move until win. But if player card is sooo important for you I can start playing too, then I wanna know what is going to be your excuse. but you guys will probably just ignore me like you do with the rest of the top players that are saying axis is in a great position right now.

hurrr durrr

I play axis only in private game against friends since I'm not a tryhard.

Playing wehr in automatch is a snorefest

Thank you for this.
You just made my day

But please start playing wehrmacht in automatch, im sure you"ll get atleast twice the ranking with them than with your allied counterparts since Wehr is soooo easy