There is no point playing Ostheer 1v1 anymore

It can be fun if Clown Cars change like that:

You can toggle for the squad inside to attack or taking cover.

While you want to them to shoot, the squad would having red cover at that state, taking more damage and incoming accuracy. Flame, nades and mortar would quickly annihilate them like IHT in CoH1. Guess what, they are standing tightly on a truck.

While taking cover, it would be like HTD but unable to shoot. Logically sound right and add some risk management into that unit.

Scout car play is a matter of balance on the one hand and the no risks involved on the other hand. But this can easily be improved by changing the price and making the units inside take damage from small arms and more damage when the vehicle gets destroyed.

There is very big risk in using M3 - you dont have proper AT until T4 and every M3 cost fuel...

There is very big risk in using M3 - you dont have proper AT until T4 and every M3 cost fuel...

Not in its current state. You don't lose much ressources and gain a lot of the map. On top of that you normally get guards for early at. If that's not enough, you should be able to afford a t34 or su85 by the time the OH player gets a p4 or similar things.

I am not even sure if it is that OP, since I personally did not lose against soviets, because of M3s at all (lost only 1 game against soviets so far). I actually think that without the M3, soviets might be in a worse position than germans. I would prefer a shift towards weaker M3s and stronger conscripts. But that is only my personal opinion.

My statement about the M3 was rather directed to joshua who asked why they might be damaging the game. So I gave him a possible reason why so many people are crying about the M3.

There is very big risk in using M3 - you dont have proper AT until T4 and every M3 cost fuel...

lol

Only they

make the fucking oowah be an upgrade,
remove the goddamn clown car gangster driveby,
giving men real guns instead of wargame BB plastic guns,
balance up support team crew members,
balance up Sdkwf 221 scout cars, T70s and T-34s,
giving Ostheer global upgrades instead of muni, muni and muni,
remove garrison god mode,
making infantry movement be more sensitive and slightly faster,
give Ostheer 30 muni mines,
giving the mapmaking sofeware out and set up map contest,

then we have a game can give us more fun and a big step forward than CoH1

You know, I actually quite agree that this needs to happen, along with a lot of what Trainzz said.

What made COH1 great was actually the fact that the units did not have that many abilities - the most being rifles (and this only being 3), which is fine because they're really squishy at the start. Now, ABILITIES EVERYWHERE!

Whereas the Grens have abilities similar to your VCoH Gren/Volk, which is fair enough, look at the long list Conscripts have

• OOrah - Conscripts with Stim Packs
  
• PPsH (Dramatically increases their DPS. kinda same way as the BAR was an upgrade, except this costs no fuel)
  
• Battlefield repair - like really....
  
• HTD - If this can stop Vet 3 Grens with vanilla script... what even
  
• Flare - interesting concept but really only belongs on engineers, not cons
  
• Sandbag wall - why aren't engineers building this (Yes, rifles get this in VCoH but, unlike here, this isn't universal
  
• Merge - I can kind of understand where this is trying to come from so I'm somewhat fine with this
  
• Molotov
  
• AT Nade
  

And to top it all off, they are nowhere near as squishy as rifles were. And also, vet 3 scripts are impossible to kill with infantry, despite the fact it's actually really easy to get vet 3 scripts

This is just one of the examples of the silly number of abilities (most universal) the
units in this game get.

And to sum it off, no, random shit does not make a better game.

The main problem about it is that it does not have any counter play. You can do it without any risks.

In vCoH, every thing you did involved risks. And everything that does not really involve risks (namingly stickies, fausts and nades) had an effective counterplay (dodging/kiting). On top of that, these abilities did not even render a vehicle (worst case a panther/tiger) useless and unable to move, but simply slowed down the unit or just did damage.

This drastically changed with Opposing Fronts, where abilities like treadbreaker, button and stuff came into play. These things do not take any skill to use, are a hard counter to things like vehicles and cannot even be counter by good micro micro (ok, you can stay out of range, but let us be honest, you cannot react to things before you actually see them, meaning that you cannot retreat your vehicle fast enough, once you see the enemy unit that can use this ability).

Now, these abilities can also be found here, again. Button, vehicle crew stun. These things don't have a counterplay, and render a vehicle useless for a period of time. On top of that they don't involve any risk using them. You click on the ability and its done. It takes away the dynamic of the game, as you just have to click buttons to win engagements. Micro? Please, you don't need micro when you have long range tanks that destroy a tank before your crew is actually able to drive its tank again.

Quinns statement that the button ability would promote combined arms is pretty much non-sense, imo. You don't promote things like combined arms by having abilities on units. You promote combined arms by giving units different strengths. Now, a units strength should not come from its abilities. A unit should be useful without their abilities. (again, look at vCoH - not a single unit there was useful for its abilities, but for its strength in fighting infantry/tanks/buildings or just being able to tank a lot of damage.

To give an example. Conscripts are like rifles - versatile and your core unit. Shocks are just a strong infantry unit that is good against infantry only. Guards are a unit that is supposed to combine decent anti infantry and decent anti tank. The thing is, this is mostly achieved by the fact that they have the button ability. Their anti tank rifles are not really the best of anti-tank weapons. Compare that to CoH1, we had rifles, rangers, which were useful against infatnry and light vehicles and airbornes, that were only useful against tanks and to some extend light vehicles. Why? Because they had different weapons that made them strong against different targets. And you know what? It worked out very well and made the game dynamic.

This is basically nonsense wrt the COH-2 button. Button gets broken by vehicle smoke. It's also very munitions expensive and has a limited enough range that you can usually kite it if you see it coming. Guards are good anti-light vehicle, a reasonably good supplement to damage against medium tanks when they have some sort of backup (and/or mark target) but completely insufficient for dealing with hard AI tanks like the Ostwind or Brummbar.

This is basically nonsense wrt the COH-2 button. Button gets broken by vehicle smoke. It's also very munitions expensive and has a limited enough range that you can usually kite it if you see it coming. Guards are good anti-light vehicle, a reasonably good supplement to damage against medium tanks when they have some sort of backup (and/or mark target) but completely insufficient for dealing with hard AI tanks like the Ostwind or Brummbar.

Yeah, you are right, forgot about vehicle smoke. Still, I don't think it is good gameplay-wise to rely on a certain commander to counter another commander. Abilities should not determine the usefulness of a unit. And this is sadly the fact with guards, atm. The fact that it is munitions intensive if you spam it does not really make it any better. Every ability uses ammo, just that this one has this one particular problem. You cannot really counter it.

Concerning its range. I would say it is possible to kite, if the pathfinding was better. Atm, when you are moving forward with your tank and you get into sight range of the unit, it is too late, as the tank will keep driving for another second. If units were more responsive, I could say that the ability can at least be avoided, although that still does not really offer many counter play options, either.

I would be fine with it, if it offered a bit less utility. Mainly the inability to move should be removed, so that you can at least counter the inability to see and shoot with moving away for the duration it lasts. It can ofc slow the tank a bit as well, but a complete immobility seems just too much for how little skill and risk it takes to use.

Dafuq? AT nades have the same range of fausts(it's good emphasize it) and i've never seen a launched faust miss the target, maybe i'm lucky(sarcasm)

Faust do "miss" the target about ever 15 shots or so. I think what happens it the faust hits the model of the unit inside the M3. But they do miss.

Thanks Trainzz,

I quibble with some of your points, but I tried to post and they went bye bye, so never mind. I like bastilone's suggestion actually, because button will require the coupling of a conscript with AT grenades to really pay off, though I think button should cause at least some additional slow-down, otherwise button will almost always automatically break, being a near complete waste of munitions.

There is very big risk in using M3 - you dont have proper AT until T4 and every M3 cost fuel...

This x100. 20 Fuel for a unit that provides some damage and essentially just makes whatever inside of it more mobile. Not to mention one faust means it's GG, with some decent decision making skills you can flank and get a faust off because it damages the engine 100% of the time (I think? from personal experience). Anyways that 20 Fuel sets us back quite a bit for how easy it is to destroy. That's like 1/4th of the tech building, so if we make two we're slowing down our tech for decent AT (t34 spam if you can identify how well you're doing, or SU-85).

This x100. 20 Fuel for a unit that provides some damage and essentially just makes whatever inside of it more mobile. Not to mention one faust means it's GG, with some decent decision making skills you can flank and get a faust off because it damages the engine 100% of the time (I think? from personal experience). Anyways that 20 Fuel sets us back quite a bit for how easy it is to destroy. That's like 1/4th of the tech building, so if we make two we're slowing down our tech for decent AT (t34 spam if you can identify how well you're doing, or SU-85).

Learn to use it lol

Learn to use it lol

learn to counter it lol.

Please stop being so obtuse and give constructive criticism.

learn to counter it lol.

Please stop being so obtuse and give constructive criticism.

Do your sentence constructive? Sir?

Learn to use it lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djqk1hbrvfk

Like and subscribe shitlord.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djqk1hbrvfk

Like and subscribe shitlord.

Then there is still risk? you kidding me?
This shit can give you tons of mapcontrol, force retreat tons of Grens. And force Ostheer getting a shit-like 25 fuel 70 muni SdKwf 221 Scout Car to counter

Risk? WTF?

Button should be a persistant debuff for its duration, regardless of line of sight.

If Button, as a game mechanic, required the Guard unit to remain immobile to keep up (same as LMG), Id understand a longer duration and LoS requirement, so as to represent the Guard squad maintaining persistant concentrated fire on the vehicle, forcing it to close its view portals.

I do think it needs a small duration reduction.
Its muni cost is arguably a bit high, but I think Sov muni costs overall need increasinf, in conjunction with Buttons cost can be reduced.

Then there is still risk? you kidding me?
This shit can give you tons of mapcontrol, force retreat tons of Grens. And force Ostheer getting a shit-like 25 fuel 70 muni SdKwf 221 Scout Car to counter

Risk? WTF?

Yeah it's extremely effective here against cluster gren spam retardation. If he flanked the long way around with one gren squad he could have easily taken out the clown car, and if nothing else built a Flame HT to shut down my map control on the opposite side of the map (from where the car is), because forcing 2 clown cars and 2 snipers is a recipe for you to out cap your opponent because he dumped all of his resources into squishy easy to beat shit.

I have plenty of games go where I do what I did in the video and still lose to well timed vehicles and AT nades + Guards not being able to handle my AT while his vehicles are supported.

@Enix: What game mode do you play?

Only they

make the fucking oowah be an upgrade,
remove the goddamn clown car gangster driveby,
giving men real guns instead of wargame BB plastic guns,
balance up support team crew members,
balance up Sdkwf 221 scout cars, T70s and T-34s,
giving Ostheer global upgrades instead of muni, muni and muni,
remove garrison god mode,
making infantry movement be more sensitive and slightly faster,
give Ostheer 30 muni mines,
giving the mapmaking sofeware out and set up map contest,

then we have a game can give us more fun and a big step forward than CoH1

Calm down its only been like 10 days since release, there are some balance problems but none of them compare to some of the stuff in CoH1 that went unchanged for a while.

-ghost tank traps
-gliders kill units they land on
-barbed wire require upgrading to cut
-barbed wire revealing cloaked units
-sniper in church
-2.601
-Pak snipe
-etc.

Calm down its only been like 10 days since release, there are some balance problems but none of them compare to some of the stuff in CoH1 that went unchanged for a while.

-ghost tank traps
-gliders kill units they land on
-barbed wire require upgrading to cut
-barbed wire revealing cloaked units
-sniper in church
-2.601
-Pak snipe
-etc.

haha, good old memories
I still think "sniper in church" is intended trolling by Relic