Churchills need the old armor back

Cost almost as much as comet, yet is completely unable to pull that cost weight in comparison to comet.

Armor/health nerfs were fine, bumping its cost led to exact situation which happened in alpha, where no one EVER get a churchill, because it was stupid to get it when there was a comet.

And that was OLD 1600hp 300 armor churchill.

Damn...

I agree with Waegukin, I dont think its needs stats buff. It does its job and its gun is....Okkkish but giving it buffs would me a tank with no negatives other than speed.

It's meant to be a heavy tank, not just that but a heavy tank with heavy armour all round. Yet it feels an awful lot like 2 PIV's bolted together to me, only without the mobility and with a less AI friendly main gun.

How does it's armour compare to the other heavy and medium tanks in the game? I could swear that some of the mediums have far superior armour.

There weren't many heavy tanks in the war, KV, Tiger, JS2.. I certainly don't feel that it matches up to those well.

Anyone know the stats?

Churchill could get some of it HP and armor back but then other thing would have to change:

1) Churchill should have its over-performing grenade toned down

2) Smoke should not provide vision block but yellow cover to infantries

3) "war speed" should not be available to Churchills or it should be toned down for heavy vehicles

4) the synergy of of heavy engineers and Churchills should be toned down.Heavy engineers is a buff in 2 roles both as fighting unit and as repair it should become only in one. Being able to fight and gain veterancy allows H.Eng to reach vet 2 level easily and benefit from 2 repair speed bonuses allowing Churchills to return to frontline very fast.

If these changes are made Churchill should have its defensive properties increased

I think this is bait right?
It's nearly impossible to kill a churchill if played correctly. The armor on that thing is still sick. I play mainly brit and my churchills don't get killed that often lol.

A churchill is a damage-soaking unit that already has enough armor.

Pen buff?

I haven't faced an undoctorinal (Anvil) variation of Churchills in 2on2 since I started playing in November at all. What were they like before, what were its stats? Why was it nerfed in release (not alpha)?

...What were they like before, what were its stats? Why was it nerfed in release (not alpha)?

You can find the changes in Churchill in the patch files...the Alpha UKF where significantly different than the released ones (especially the off map mechanics), when released probably enough data was collected that Chuchill was over performing (most played where picking up anvil over hammer) and thus it was nerfed...

Yeah, I thought I'd ask to get the stats to compare, instead of being lazily redirected to massive patchnotes, difficult to browse, difficult to get since the official forums are down, with possible changes of the Churchill since the release of the faction in August..

I get it that changes were "significant". Horray for helping!

Yeah, I thought I'd ask to get the stats to compare, instead of being lazily redirected to massive patchnotes, difficult to browse, difficult to get since the official forums are down, with possible changes of the Churchill since the release of the faction in August..

I get it that changes were "significant". Horray for helping!

So actually someone else should go to patch notes because you are "lazy"? Glad to help.

You can also see some of the changes in the first post of this page...

Gosh, no need to be that passive aggressive and trolling.

I kindly asked that the values were, and I did not expect to be redirected to a telephone book of change log (without even a link to anything)

I'm sure someone else will be friendly enough to post these. Cheers!

I agree with Waegukin, I dont think its needs stats buff. It does its job and its gun is....Okkkish but giving it buffs would me a tank with no negatives other than speed.

But that's still a negative pal, whats the panthers negative? Fairly poor A.I and the King Tiger's? That it's slow. It's pretty obvious no one will chose a Churchill over a comet so it makes Anvil really pointless.

To get the most of the anvil you have to:
A) Have a fair few engies (to get the upgrade)
B) Have a lot of Muni(to purchase the upgrade and use arty)

So anvil affects around 10% of your army in a regular game, the engies, sure they are a decent unit but they move so so slow that they are easily countered. Then the Churchill which has a pretty poo main gun, ok A.I but gets penetrated by everything most of the time (I think Stug's bounce?) why would you chose it when you have access to:

Hammer, to benefit from hammer you need:
A) 1 engie (to give war speed to all tanks for free)
B) A few tanks (to recieve war speed)
C) Decent munitions (for the nades)
D) IS (To throw said nades)

Which out of the two is the most common scenario in the game? I say the latter, a couple of engies, 3 or 4 tanks, the rest, infantry/team weapons.

Hammer therefore effects well over 60% of your force and on top of that gives you a really fast and hard hitting tank that I swear (confirmation bias?) bounces a lot more than the Churchill.

I can't say what it needs as I rarely use them but one thing that needs looking at is the Grenades they can throw, they can wipe squads, multiple squads even (for free?) but honestly, why go anvil?

Churchill could get some of it HP and armor back but then other thing would have to change:

1) Churchill should have its over-performing grenade toned down

2) Smoke should not provide vision block but yellow cover to infantries

3) "war speed" should not be available to Churchills or it should be toned down for heavy vehicles

4) the synergy of of heavy engineers and Churchills should be toned down.Heavy engineers is a buff in 2 roles both as fighting unit and as repair it should become only in one. Being able to fight and gain veterancy allows H.Eng to reach vet 2 level easily and benefit from 2 repair speed bonuses allowing Churchills to return to frontline very fast.

If these changes are made Churchill should have its defensive properties increased

Come on man, War speed is bad but Tigers and Kings using Blitz is ok? Not saying you think that but you didn't mention it Id rather see the fighting 'buff' of the engies gone but the repair speed stay if I had to make a choice, they move far to slow to really be effective at anything but camping.

Come on man, War speed is bad but Tigers and Kings using Blitz is ok? Not saying you think that but you didn't mention it Id rather see the fighting 'buff' of the engies gone but the repair speed stay if I had to make a choice, they move far to slow to really be effective at anything but camping.

Tigers and King Tigers already have toned down blitzkrieg just as Vipper proposed to do so with Churchills war speed.

Lot of people here trying to compare the Churchill to tanks like the Tiger and IS-2. That's a dumb comparison. The Churchill is an infantry tank and it should lumber around and soak up damage while fighting enemy infantry, support weapons, and emplacements. It's not really supposed to be fighting other tanks like the Tiger and such.

British tank roles:

Cromwell - generalist
Comet - better generalist
Churchill - tanky tank
Firefly - kill-other-tanks tank

Gosh, no need to be that passive aggressive and trolling.
I kindly asked that the values were, and I did not expect to be redirected to a telephone book of change log (without even a link to anything)
I'm sure someone else will be friendly enough to post these. Cheers!

No need for you to be aggressive-aggressive and call others lazy for not doing what you can do and when:
1) Katitof was already "friendly" enough to post some of the stats and Kamzil118 was also "friendly" enough to quote them in this page as pointed out to you. I am going to be friendly enough to quote once more "And that was OLD 1600hp 300 armor churchill." and more changes like price can be found in changelog...
2)link ask requested
http://www.coh2.org/topic/4307/company-of-heroes-2-changelog/page/2
http://www.companyofheroes.com/blog/categories/updates
3)posting consequence post that contain no information related to the topic could be considered trolling.

Come on man, War speed is bad but Tigers and Kings using Blitz is ok? Not saying you think that but you didn't mention it Id rather see the fighting 'buff' of the engies gone but the repair speed stay if I had to make a choice, they move far to slow to really be effective at anything but camping.

Blitz gives less bonuses to to heavy tanks...even to a panther...I said remove because being able to use "war speed" in allied tank should not be allowed...I also suggested to be toned down if it stays similar to axis heavies...

I have made a thread about engineers and the ability both to fight and repair, it could be separated by giving the repair boost to engineers equipped with minesweepers and make weapons and minesweepers mutually exclusive.

if you want to see check here:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/46004/the-op-utility-of-engineers

Cost almost as much as comet, yet is completely unable to pull that cost weight in comparison to comet.

Armor/health nerfs were fine, bumping its cost led to exact situation which happened in alpha, where no one EVER get a churchill, because it was stupid to get it when there was a comet.

And that was OLD 1600hp 300 armor churchill.

+1. It's the unit that continues to be the most hated by Axis fanboys lol.

Snarkiness aside, I would have loved to see the Churchill's armor increased to 310, HP to 1040, and the price either staying the same or a slight increase to 200 fuel. It's just such a mediocre unit right now.

Nobody use it for 1v1 anymore anyway so yeah it really needs some changes.

"It's not really supposed to be fighting other tanks like the Tiger and such. "

Fair enough.

Circulate the memo to the Axis and providing they cooperate...

It shouldn't be facing Tigers because it isn't a heavy tank, unless you consider the PIV to be a heavy...

Churchill 240
Panther 320 ( wtf! Its a medium!)
PIV 234 (wtf! It was a poorly armoured medium!)
Tiger 300
JS2 375
KV 300
Pershing 300

See the odd one out? Mk 8s had more armour than a sodding light cruiser and close the same thickness as a KT!

Saying that though the Krauts couldn't make proper armour due to a lack of molybdenum.

Not sure if I've missed any out....