Latch's 15 Suggestions To Balance COH2

First off, I'd like to reiterate that you should not be deterred by the biased players on this forum, Fan-bois gonna defend whichever side they feel are the "correct" one. I personally think a lot of the short comments from players are unfair, therefore I'll comment on all of your points, and try to be as objective as possible.

1. Flames. The flames in themselves are actually fine. The damage is good; they made solid changes to the flame damage, so it is less RNG and more the player who is on the receiving end who must react. The problem is more the fact that the allied MGs can’t stop volks dropping incendiary nades on them before they get pinned. This would be solved like kappatch and miragefla has done in their balance mods, by reducing the nade range of all units by 50% when suppressed, this means that charging MGs frontally would be a no go. Second the whole idea of the Maxim not teleporting is making this even more detrimental to the survivability of the Maxim, and this should be changed ASAP.

2. I agree that the stun nade does too much damage; I’d like to see a longer stun duration and a damage of 20 instead of 40. The Stun nade must though get some love if you reduce the damage.

3. A lot of the OKW bonuses and extra features they got because they were a resource starved faction still remain, even though they aren’t a starved faction any longer. I think that it should be an upgrade to make essentially a very tough emplacement. I also think that the AA ability of any kind of base building/base defense should be nullified due to an unfair advantage compared to the opposing factions. With regard to balancing against allied planes, I’d like to emphasize that the Axis have quite a few airborne abilities.

- Axis: Stuka strafe Loiter & strafe, Stuka AT loiter & strafe, Stuka incendiary strike, Supply drop, smoke run, fragmentation bombs, recon run & loiter, Airborne Assualt(OKW) Sector Assualt(OKW) = 12 abilities
- Allied: P47 anti-tank strafe(USF), Strafing run(USF), Recon Run & loiter(USF/SU), Il-2 strafing run & loiter(SU), Il-2 bombing run(SU), Strafing support(UKF), Air supremacy(UKF), Hold the Line(UKF), Allied supply drop(SU), Air resupply operation(UKF) = 12 abilities

Both sides have the same amount of abilities that involve planes. Taking away free AA bases and base defenses should not affect balance. If you see planes, get AA – simple.

4. I think that these should just be MG bunkers. As was stated earlier take that extra bunker away from the USF and make all factions have the same base defense. There should equilibrium here. Then fix the damn Flak emplacements that can be placed on the map by the OKW Luftwaffe doctrine already!

5. The off maps are for the most part fine, I would on the other hand like to see something done to the STUKA dive bomb. It should be marked with red smoke, and be made cheaper, so that you can actually react properly to it, and make it unusable in the base sector. Other than that, most of the off-map that can be targeted in the bases are fine.

6. With regard to this unit, I think relic really messed up. The Le.IG was a pretty neat machine in real life. My way of making this unit work properly, would be to give it a cone like the maxim, and make it a direct fire unit, that has a barrage ability like the mortars, but with a longer cool down time. The pack howitzer had a much longer range than the Le.IG, but why they reversed this in the game, I don’t understand. I know balance > History, but I think this is just a wasted opportunity to make the Le.IG really cool. I do agree that the Le.IG is annoying and stupidly made, the range is too much. With regards to the UKF, I think it’s a problem with the UKF faction design.

7. I don’t really have any comments here. Not particularly for or against the change.

8. I think that the rocket artillery should all be put in line with the Katysha, except for the Calliope, which should be slightly better due to being a commander unit, and commander based units should perform better(not massively better), than their non-doctrinal counterparts. The price of the units should of course be adjusted, this will basically only apply to the Calliope seeing as it’s the most expensive of all the rocket arty units. The only gripe I have about the Stuka zu fuss, is that it kills the un-crewed team weapons and too efficiently and still destroys the weapon teams’ weapon even when crewed.

9. See point 7.

10. I think that the problem is where the panzerschreck is where it’s placed at the moment and its damage. I think the whole rebalancing of hand-held AT you propose is a bit too harsh. So I’d rather see the panzerschreck having their damage reduced to 80 like the zook, but retain its amazing penetration. Put it on the Sturmpios and make a double panzerschreck upgrade that costs 120 muni, make this available after one built tier, this would fix a lot of the volks blobbing. Then give the volks a 3xMP40 upgrade, which also unlocks their incendiary nades, and reduced their KAR damage to 11, cuz right now volks are really strong. This would at least make them resemble the real life volks grenadiers, call this upgrade: “assault package” and make it available after one tier is built.

11. Scavenge is a ability that I think is fine for the most part, but the most simple fix would just be making it only able to salvage wrecks, team weapon wrecks, tank wrecks and so forth.

12. I think the new kubel is pretty cool, +15% cap speed… not soooo much, remove that and it’s fine.

13. I honestly do not see how the devs could make this decision. Not only are they giving one faction a free extra unit. None of the other faction has a 15th unit, except the brits, but they have to choose, they will effectively only have 13 units available at any time(this includes emplacement combat units). This in my opinion a cardinal sin, especially since 1: it is simply not needed, the OKW have all the armor and vehicles they need(what they really need is a non-doctrinal MG34), 2: It is a super heavy tank, all other factions have to choose a commander to get something that is equivalent, how this got approved is simply beyond me. Make it a call in in the elite armor doctrine, remove the Sturmtiger and AVRE from the game, they contradict the whole theme of the game. This is balance and game design at its worst. This will probably never happen sadly. But your idea is good, this would balance it out, and then add another unit to all the faction that only have 14 units. Add a much needed light tank to the OST for instance, the Hotchkiss, a mortar for the USF, KV1 for SU etc.

14. I really think that this is fine right now, seeing as they are categorized as medium heavies like the panther.

15. I think that this would be too difficult to implement sorry.

These are my thoughts, and I think the way you set it up was pretty solid. Keep it up ^^

Ha, I would rather the suppression than it's capping ability, but I did state a greater time to actually pin a squad unlike before where it would pin like an MG42.

De-cap? Fair enough, but cap AND faster than infantry for both capping and speed? A bit much.

Bruh, it becomes nearly obsolete 4 minutes into game, this isn't a issue at all imo.

Make a mod and try it.

If you post sth. like nerfing OKW, you should play this faction first.At the very least.

OP, because you're a game designer you can clearly see that the OKW has a number of design issues that make very little sense. Upon calling for these issues to be reworked, your told that you are actually calling to nerf OKW. This is because the entire design of the OKW is fundamentally flawed, so flawed in fact that it's gimmicks are the only things holding the faction together. Make a infantry blob, get a leig, kill all, rush vehicles with dirt cheap teching and hope your blob doesn't get killed or you don't get run over early/mid game by light vehicles.

I think that any thread dealing with resolving OKW design flaws must also propose rational buffs to the faction, so everyone is appeased.

OP, because you're a game designer you can clearly see that the OKW has a number of design issues that make very little sense. Upon calling for these issues to be reworked, your told that you are actually calling to nerf OKW. This is because the entire design of the OKW is fundamentally flawed, so flawed in fact that it's gimmicks are the only things holding the faction together. Make a infantry blob, get a leig, kill all, rush vehicles with dirt cheap teching and hope your blob doesn't get killed or you don't get run over early/mid game by light vehicles.

I think that any thread dealing with resolving OKW design flaws must also propose rational buffs to the faction, so everyone is appeased.

Of course, I'm not one to bias in favor of faction, It's in my opinion OKW that make this game a massive pain to play but the only way 'true' to stop it is to strip the faction of its identity which is, in my eyes, a really bad solution.

My focus wasn't OKW, this faction is simply the one I see that has the most striking issues which is why it is mentioned more times. I understand the people that are saying I should at least play as them, I see where you are coming from but I reiterate that I have watched countless people playing as them so I know how painful some situations can be. Yet, this doesn't exclude the fact that most of what I said is a clear issue with the faction. It may be too harsh, unnecessary or out right ridiculous but this is why I shared it with you, so we can discuss the issues and possibly find a solution that will really help the game in the long run.

Please don't think I am being malicious or have an ulterior motive, I'm simply stating big issues that I see are damaging the games balance.

Bruh, it becomes nearly obsolete 4 minutes into game, this isn't a issue at all imo.

I agree that it has its limit of usefulness just like the UC but those 4 minutes in the early game are vital in establishing a foothold.

SNIP!

1. Agree completely other than that the flame damage is fine, as I showed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73V85WLFlLc flame HT (The same for the crock) give you next to no reaction time to get an MG out of a building, it's possible, don't get me wrong, I tested it several times but the timing has to be near perfect (and the Gods on your side so the squad doesn't setup on exit -.-).

2. Aye, its just a misleading description along with the rifle nade that I'm most annoyed with.

3. Not 100% sure what you are stating here, the AA ability should be an upgrade or the gun itself? I like the gun itself, it's gardening annoying but acceptable and easy to take out, the main problem being, the free AA.

4. What's wrong with the flak emplacements that can be built?

5. agree and disagree, I'm the stance of either all abilities in the base or none at all, what constitutes as one that can't be targeted in bases?

6. Kind of like the soviet AT guns ability but that as the leigs main role? That could work but would obviously remove indirect fire from OKW unless they spend munitions for the ability. I think that's too drastic a change other than simply increasing scatter or reducing range.

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10. It is harsh but its several ideas merged into one. If I had to pick any it would be that no AT weapons should be fired at infantry and should have a minimal range against tanks so you can't shoot at them from near point blank range.

Wouldn't giving the volks the MP turn them into CQ units? meaning they would in essence, have no mid game standard long range infantry until volks arrive?

11. Decent compromise, wrecks only but with a slight increase due to the no cache and no more weapon salvage.

12. Don't talk to me anymore Just kidding, This is just my biggest pain in game at the moment so unless you agree with me, I refuse to listen to you on this point, ha. No, I still stand by the de-caping ability rather than capping, possibly increase its health or Armour so it remain useful later on, christ, I'd even let it have cloak at vet 1 so long as it could only decap!

13. Thank you, it is just incredibly annoying to destroy the bases and then oh, a super duper none doctrinal tank has arrived -.-. Well, that was pointless I should have kept the base alive and just fought panthers instead.

14. So long as the Churchill remains in its current state, then agreed but as the Churchill has really no defining role now I can envision a change coming which may or may not, need it to be limited.

15. That's a difficult one to predict, we already have group buffs with the Captains 'On me' the airlanding officers charge and the officer blob so the essential lines are already there that increase the squads potential within a radius to a specific unit.

In theory all that needs to be done is enclose the code in a timer gate and begin the effects when the time runs out, increasing the effects the more squads are near the given squad, resetting the timer when they move away. But, that's just a theory, a game th.. Sorry, a theory that, in the coding world, is never that simple, ha!

Thanks for the reply anyway, I really appreciate you taking the time to discuss it with me and sorry for the late reply!

SNIP! xD

1. Agree completely other than that the flame damage is fine, as I showed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73V85WLFlLc flame HT (The same for the crock) give you next to no reaction time to get an MG out of a building, it's possible, don't get me wrong, I tested it several times but the timing has to be near perfect (and the Gods on your side so the squad doesn't setup on exit -.-).

- I see your point when both flamers from the half track shoots, it really #REKT'ed that mg. Is it the same for the croc? Maybe it can be fixed with less damage vs garrisoned units on these specific units?

3. Not 100% sure what you are stating here, the AA ability should be an upgrade or the gun itself? I like the gun itself, it's gardening annoying but acceptable and easy to take out, the main problem being, the free AA.

I think the gun should be an upgrade yes, but the AA should be removed. Base buildings and base defense should never provide free AA. Here the flack emplacements in the OKW Luftwaffe and fortification doctrine should of course provide AA, just like the bofors.

4. What's wrong with the flak emplacements that can be built?

It gets decrewed extremly fast, and really a waste of resources, make it more viable. Like the british emplacements, but probably without the brace.

5. agree and disagree, I'm the stance of either all abilities in the base or none at all, what constitutes as one that can't be targeted in bases?

- Maybe you are right. I dunno some just feel better due to being more RNG that others.

6. Kind of like the soviet AT guns ability but that as the leigs main role? That could work but would obviously remove indirect fire from OKW unless they spend munitions for the ability. I think that's too drastic a change other than simply increasing scatter or reducing range.

- Not exactly, but close. Its auto-fire would be direct fire, and then have a barrage ability like the mortars at no cost, and a fair cool-down, so it would be more like the hybrid gun it was in real life. Its range range would be equal to the other mortars, and would fit with it being closer to the front.

10. It is harsh but its several ideas merged into one. If I had to pick any it would be that no AT weapons should be fired at infantry and should have a minimal range against tanks so you can't shoot at them from near point blank range.

- I see where you are going. It might work, Just think that the Schreck honestly deals way to much damage, which in return makes AT guns redundant.

Wouldn't giving the volks the MP turn them into CQ units? meaning they would in essence, have no mid game standard long range infantry until volks arrive?

- It would, but there is always the choice of having Volks in the back shooting and holding the line with long range support. It is also an effort to make the Volks more like the real life Volks Grenadiers.

11. Decent compromise, wrecks only but with a slight increase due to the no cache and no more weapon salvage.

- Agreed.

12. Don't talk to me anymore Just kidding, This is just my biggest pain in game at the moment so unless you agree with me, I refuse to listen to you on this point, ha. No, I still stand by the de-caping ability rather than capping, possibly increase its health or Armour so it remain useful later on, christ, I'd even let it have cloak at vet 1 so long as it could only decap!

You really hate that little guy huh?

13. Thank you, it is just incredibly annoying to destroy the bases and then oh, a super duper none doctrinal tank has arrived -.-. Well, that was pointless I should have kept the base alive and just fought panthers instead.

14. So long as the Churchill remains in its current state, then agreed but as the Churchill has really no defining role now I can envision a change coming which may or may not, need it to be limited.

I can see what you mean. But I think it's fine at the moment, seeing as panthers, which are also pretty amazing, aren't limited.

15. That's a difficult one to predict, we already have group buffs with the Captains 'On me' the airlanding officers charge and the officer blob so the essential lines are already there that increase the squads potential within a radius to a specific unit.

In theory all that needs to be done is enclose the code in a timer gate and begin the effects when the time runs out, increasing the effects the more squads are near the given squad, resetting the timer when they move away. But, that's just a theory, a game th.. Sorry, a theory that, in the coding world, is never that simple, ha!

Agreed, but thou has to remember; Relic have stated that they think blobbing and spamming is a viable option and strategy. I don't think they'll go this way, not that i would mind.

Thanks for the reply anyway, I really appreciate you taking the time to discuss it with me and sorry for the late reply!

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