Should Relic take a look at artillery next patch?

Hi everyone, I think artillery (rocket, shell and static) is in a really strange place at the moment.

On one hand we have the Pzwerfer, Stuka and Calliope 'Over performing'.

The Katyusha, which I think is balanced perfectly but in a poor tier

Then we have the:

B-4
ML-20
Scott
Priest
Sexton
LeFH-18
UKF base Howitzers

Which have almost disappeared due to being UP, 1-click countered by off maps or from being the Sexton.

With USF and OKW blobs a big issue at the moment I think one of the ways to mitigate the problem would be by trying to make artillery relevant again.

I have no ideas yet in what they could buff, I just wanted to know what you guys thought?

I'm not trying to start a STUKA NOT OP M8 L2P thread, just looking for a decent discussion

Soviet howis-too inaccurate and expensive while too easily counterable by meta doctrines to even bother.

Scott, its a mortar on a stuart locked in T3, obviously it'll be useless.

Priest-calliope, so why priest?

Suxton & UKF base howis

LeHF - overwhelming popularity of mobile defense and osttruppen doctrines plus return of tiger meta more then anything.

Hello.

About B-4/ML20/LeFH18 :
-they costs 600 MP
-they are aviable at 8CP.
-they are fragile and defenseless (except the B4 that can attempt a shot against an incoming tank)
-they are inacurate at best and sometimes hit something.
-they vet fast
-they are immobile
-they die to any offmap strike or artillery shot or punishing team.

Currently they hardly worth their investment and are only seen in 4v4 where they sometimes go unnoticed (as they miss everything).
I think you cannot overcome their fragility and weaknesses but you can compensate by being deadlier.
Imagine the following :
-making them Heavy tank tier units
-aviable at 12-13 CP somewhere
-making them more precise
-modifing the cost, probably adding a reasonable fuel cost but i cant see them costing more than 600MP
-Maybe making them deal 640 dammages, oneshoting medium tanks.

The problem is it is something that can be considered as "lack of interaction" and unfun but it is still easy to deal with.

About UKF base howis, remember that for a 90 munition investment you destroy the building it shoot at, which is something to consider. And it also creat a deadzone for a good time.

Kozo.

It would be good if Relic could look into the US M8. It's basically a more maneuverable pack howitzer for 75 fuel, which isn't much use in the late game. Especially when the axis equivalent is rocket artillery which have a vastly bigger area of effect and damage output.

Gun-howitzers (not rocket ones) should inflict critical on vehiciles if hit.
Crew shock, enginge damage, turret locked etc.
This should apply to ML, B4, LeFH, Priest, Sexton, 25 pounder.

Plus, I think that they shouldnt be countered by 2 clicks. I mean, dive bomb should decrew them and take 80-90% of health. BUT you can repair it only to, let's say, 50% of health so next dive bomb/any other off map will kill it. This also should apply to LeFH/Pak43 vs IL-2

This would force enemy to bigger effort in order so if you want to kill it with 1 dive bomb, push and damage howie a bit. If you just want to click-wipe, prepare for higher cost.

Plus I'd like to see B4 rework for 3 rounds howie with 240damage on each shell with bit smaller scatter.

Soviet howis-too inaccurate and expensive while too easily counterable by meta doctrines to even bother.

Scott, its a mortar on a stuart locked in T3, obviously it'll be useless.

Priest-calliope, so why priest?

Suxton & UKF base howis

LeHF - overwhelming popularity of mobile defense and osttruppen doctrines plus return of tiger meta more then anything.

This.

What comes to LeFH also - it's so easily countered by calliope that it's effectively just a waste of MP, so is PaK 43. The katyusha kind of sucks too, for it's cost (tech + the unit itself) it doesn't do much compared to the other rocket artillery platforms

it seems like the entire game should get reworked.

but yeah, lelic pretty much destroyed the B4 doctrin. the times of oneshotting blobs with the aimbot ability. Kreygasm
other stationary arty (especially allied) is useless in almost all games because of the 2 click stuka dive bomb counter. oy vey.

Every time I see a static artillery thread I post the same thing.

There are 1-click, no-brainer, no-micro counters that negate 600 manpower. You either have these counters in your selected commander or not. Either way it is not fun to play the game that way. The deadly Stuka + Recon combo is present in multiple doctrines which are all very present in the meta.

Solution: fudge the target tables so that all offmaps leave a full HP howitzer at 5% hit points (in addiion to decrewing of course). Maybe inflict a crit that it can't fire until fully fixed. Alternatively, give some variation of brace.

Until this is implemented, there is no use discussing balancing tube arty at all. It could be overpowered as hell and we simply would not know because HURR DURR STUKA STRIKE.

I will keep posting this in all artillery threads until it is implemented.

Every time I see a static artillery thread I post the same thing.

There are 1-click, no-brainer, no-micro counters that negate 600 manpower. You either have these counters in your selected commander or not. Either way it is not fun to play the game that way. The deadly Stuka + Recon combo is present in multiple doctrines which are all very present in the meta.

Solution: fudge the target tables so that all offmaps leave a full HP howitzer at 5% hit points (in addiion to decrewing of course). Maybe inflict a crit that it can't fire until fully fixed. Alternatively, give some variation of brace.

Until this is implemented, there is no use discussing balancing tube arty at all. It could be overpowered as hell and we simply would not know because HURR DURR STUKA STRIKE.

I will keep posting this in all artillery threads until it is implemented.

I agree.

A rework in regards to the survivability of howitzers is needed.

What drChengele said... although the Axis fanboy rage at another version of brace would be real.

I do think howitzers suffer from being in kind of lackluster doctrines as well. Currently there is no real benefit in having a Howie when you're giving up T85/IS2/Tiger and getting such exciting abilities as the Strumovik Strafe that might ding up 1 or 2 squads or the KV1 with its terrible main gun.

Every time I see a static artillery thread I post the same thing.

There are 1-click, no-brainer, no-micro counters that negate 600 manpower. You either have these counters in your selected commander or not. Either way it is not fun to play the game that way. The deadly Stuka + Recon combo is present in multiple doctrines which are all very present in the meta.

Solution: fudge the target tables so that all offmaps leave a full HP howitzer at 5% hit points (in addiion to decrewing of course). Maybe inflict a crit that it can't fire until fully fixed. Alternatively, give some variation of brace.

Until this is implemented, there is no use discussing balancing tube arty at all. It could be overpowered as hell and we simply would not know because HURR DURR STUKA STRIKE.

I will keep posting this in all artillery threads until it is implemented.

Good ideas but you just can't give a backline unit brace. The enemy has to go deep to even see it and they can't stick around to wait for it to unbrace.

Other ideas are good.

Also remember that there are some maps where getting LOS on the artillery weapon is nearly impossible. With out stuka bomb strike it would be impossible. I don't like the idea of making artillery more durable. Katty and pwerfer are at least balance IN TERMS OF THERE SURVIVABILITY.

They definitely should look at arty. Also the off map ones and especially USF.

SEXTON CRY FOR HELP!
M4 Sherman Calliope need to be nerfed with sincerity.
stuka is somewhat OP.
Pzwerfer is OP against garrisoned infantry.

Hi everyone, I think artillery (rocket, shell and static) is in a really strange place at the moment.

On one hand we have the Pzwerfer, Stuka and Calliope 'Over performing'.

The Katyusha, which I think is balanced perfectly but in a poor tier

Then we have the:

B-4
ML-20
Scott
Priest
Sexton
LeFH-18
UKF base Howitzers

Which have almost disappeared due to being UP, 1-click countered by off maps or from being the Sexton.

With USF and OKW blobs a big issue at the moment I think one of the ways to mitigate the problem would be by trying to make artillery relevant again.

I have no ideas yet in what they could buff, I just wanted to know what you guys thought?

I'm not trying to start a STUKA NOT OP M8 L2P thread, just looking for a decent discussion

give the static howies brace

Thanks for the input so far guys. It's a real quandary as to how improve durability for static artillery without making them immune to off-maps and deep pushes.

So far:

A brace ability?
OR
Reduce off maps potency against them (namely SDB 50kg).



Maybe they should make it so that you are unable to call in aircraft within a certain radius of an AA unit? Would go a long way towards protecting them.

The problem with brace for howitzers is that they spend most of their time doing nothing anyway thanks to cooldown, so you aren't really losing anything by bracing. (As an aside it would be interesting, and probably hilarious, if howitzers were given an autofire).

The way I see things is like this:
Rocket artillery is better than gun artillery.

Axis gets stock access to rocket arty where, outside of soviets, allies need a doctrine to get any artillery.

Counterbattery fire is largely ineffective, so arty play is very low risk.


I would consider switching the priest and scott so that the USF have stock arty worth a damn. The UKF 25pdrs need an overhaul in general.

The problem with brace for howitzers is that they spend most of their time doing nothing anyway thanks to cooldown, so you aren't really losing anything by bracing. (As an aside it would be interesting, and probably hilarious, if howitzers were given an autofire).

UKF base howis have brace too.

Just saying.

>we wanna stop people building arty in their base
>UKF basearty

i know, UKF basearty is not good, but still.. lelic pls once again

buff m8 and replace it with priest nerf caliope and werfer to katiusza level and maybe nerf stuka bulding damage

I think a big thing that also needs to be looked at is long range AT tanks, Jagtiger, elephent, and ISU.

Commanders that included good callin abilities such as the stuka dive bomb with the elephent commander makes countering them very difficult.


Arty is their hard counter (or should be) so including the direct counter to these simply isnt a good idea.



TLDR: Relic Look at long range Heavy tanks and arty