Sdfksz 222 Revamp

The problem is with Ostheer light vehicles is that they are rarely worth it. The only time I'd go for one is to counter a quick M20 by going 222. Anything else just gets hardcountered by Captain tier, quick T3 or Guards + AT nades by soviets and with the new patch the AEC. I just feel like that the Ostheer light vehicles are just out of sync since the release of the new factions, leaving them in an arkward spot. This fact along with the lack of map control in the early stages for Ostheer makes me never build any of these vehicles. Plus the inability of the 222 to deal with snipers makes it an even less attractive choice. Therefore I'd like to see changes like that.

Terrible idea

Just transfer the snipers power to other units.

But if you insist on a 222 buff then bring back the old scout car with 2 upgrades,one for AI and another for AT.

This way other scout cars get indirectly buffed While give choice and power for mid game and eliminate T3 rush meta

I've been experimenting with surprise double 222's to wreck usf light vehicles. If you get the faust on the stuart they can get the kill. It's not going so well, but when it works it is very satisfying.

How would USF LT tier be useless? The vehicles still arrive earlier, have their utility, and combine well with the LT squad's shock value. Furthermore, the 222 is more expensive so Ost is investing more to counter the M20 rather than less. It's more than double the fuel of 2 scout cars.

Your 222 just arrive 10 fuel later than USF AAHT and tell me which unit can be used to counter? Its super range and godlike accuracy can ensure its safety while tearing usf troop apart. USF has to wait for captain to get atgun for real counter?

You just break the balance of the game with that suggestion.

Remember that USF AAHT has to stop to fire its main gun, with its back facing the front.

Your 222 just arrive 10 fuel later than USF AAHT and tell me which unit can be used to counter? Its super range and godlike accuracy can ensure its safety while tearing usf troop apart. USF has to wait for captain to get atgun for real counter?

You just break the balance of the game with that suggestion.

Remember that USF AAHT has to stop to fire its main gun, with its back facing the front.

Considering how meta USF AAHT is, I'd say PaK does quite well.

That would put it leages ahead of greyhound, which costs significantly more.

It can't beat it as no1 uses the greyhound.

On-topic: Very good suggestions OP, a better 222 is mandatory to Ostheer.

It can't beat it as no1 uses the greyhound.

I do at times works fine together with M20.

Fun fact-2 of them(upgraded armor) still lose to singular, kiting 222

I do at times works fine together with M20.

Fun fact-2 of them(upgraded armor) still lose to singular 222

Then its time to give some love to the greyhound, probably lower CP and better AT?

Fun fact, RedWings used it vs Barton where it killed tons of infantry.

Add panzer 3 to tier 2 side upgrade PogChamp

I have 0 issues with this and i'll give them to the current 222:
-Coaxial MG now has 10 degree traverse to the left, right, and up.
-Coaxial MG Reload from 6/6.5 to 4/4.5.
-2cm autocannon accuracy at far from 0.025 to 0.03
-Moving accuracy of the 2cm accuracy from 0.5 to 0.75
-Coaxial MG now gains accuracy bonuses with veterancy.
-222 autocannon can now attack ground.

This are the ones that requires discussion IMO.
-Health from 240 to 280.
-Autocannon range from 40 to 45.
-Cost from 210mp/15fuel to 260mp/35fuel
-2cm autocannon has x9 accuracy against infantry (.57/.36/.27 vs inf)
-Acceleration from 2.4 to 2.8
-Armour from 9/4.5 to 12/6.

USF Lt vs Wehr t2.

222 arrives later than m20, and can kill it.
AAHT arrives later than 222, and can kill it, but will suffer damage.
Pak can be used to counter AAHT.
Rifleman can be used to counter Pak.
Mg, Grenadier and Panzergren can counter rifleman.
And M20,AAHT can counter Mg, Grenadier and Panzergren.
->In other word, both sides have ways to counter each other.

Now with new 222.

222 kill AAHT with long range while poor AAHT can only chase.
222 kill rifleman from a far, using grenadier for scout, or spot for itself at vet 2.
222 kill m20.
222 unstoppable.

50 fuel + 90 seconds build time later.
57mm atgun arrive, only to find corpse of its mates...
->See what I mean?

I don't like the extra range, but i definitely like the direction of the other changes. Basically the 222 needs to be a little stronger so that it is capable of taking on the other light vehicles in pairs.

I think the range would make it a little too good at AI and sniper killing.

Since some of these changed can be found already on the mode try them and get a better opinion...

I don't like the extra range, but i definitely like the direction of the other changes. Basically the 222 needs to be a little stronger so that it is capable of taking on the other light vehicles in pairs.

I think the range would make it a little too good at AI and sniper killing.

Thing about using it in pairs is that it's very clunky until its model gets reworked causing it to take a ton of space up making maneuvering difficult. Even in pairs, 222 is not guaranteed to kill the other light vehicles unless it's a T-70 or Quad. AEC two hits the 222 and fires quickly while Stuarts can immediately shell-shock the first one and only take 3 (4 if with health buff) to kill a 222 while having Captain support. AEC is more MP intensive of course, but Stuart is cheap in MP and also comes in the same tech with the Captain if we take that into account.

The range buff would also only apply to the 2cm which gets no bonuses against the sniper aside from the bonus it gets to infantry in general if these apply. To be death to infantry it still needs to close in. A range buff would also make it unique as it rewards micoring the 222, but punishes the 222 trying to slug it out of Allied light tanks which shouldn't be its role and the cost would make losing the 222 to careless play more painful.

USF Lt vs Wehr t2.

222 arrives later than m20, and can kill it.
AAHT arrives later than 222, and can kill it, but will suffer damage.
Pak can be used to counter AAHT.
Rifleman can be used to counter Pak.
Mg, Grenadier and Panzergren can counter rifleman.
And M20,AAHT can counter Mg, Grenadier and Panzergren.
->In other word, both sides have ways to counter each other.

Now with new 222.

222 kill AAHT with long range while poor AAHT can only chase.
222 kill rifleman from a far, using grenadier for scout, or spot for itself at vet 2.
222 kill m20.
222 unstoppable.

50 fuel + 90 seconds build time later.
57mm atgun arrive, only to find corpse of its mates...
->See what I mean?

Or USF back-techs into bazookas forcing the 222 to stay at autocannon range which isn't particularly effective, just more so than it is now( also it already spots for itself (50 sight). M20 superior mobility, smoke and small-target to escape and still harass flanks or M20 mines as possible bait. Furthermore, there's the crew for a soft counter if it wants to dive-in vs infantry as its MG is still set to range 35.

AA HT can still do a number and would be a defensive unit given the 37mm has enough ammo to one clip the 222 still.

Ost lights also have different role then allied lights, 222 is a direct response to M3 or M20, not expensive all arounder.

That's a terrible role, like the AEC prior to its buff. Only being a response to a specific unit is a bad idea especially when said units have something scarier coming not too far off like Stuarts, Quads, or T-70s which the 222 is helpess against unless you're building multiple 222s, but multiple 222s hurt MP income far too much and are liable to being killed off. Furthermore, 222 comes later than either of them and losses its minimal impact after about a minute as it's not powerful enough and its current cost doesn't warrant a stronger 222.

Buff Katusha BM13

Stay on topic. Thank you.