Faction artillery options

Since there are a few topics on artillery going around, I thought I'd add a few thoughts on it.

Simply put, I believe the axis factions have a definite and decisive advantage in late game indirect fire. This can make 2v2 and higher games a complete nightmare, since there are usually stronger defensive lines on both sides.

So first, here's what I consider the stock late game units for each faction:

Wehrmacht: Panzerwerfer
OKW: Stuka zu Fuss
Soviet: Katyusha
USF: Scott
UKF: The 25 pounder?

I'd argue both the axis units outdo any of the allied options. In fact the Katyusha is the only stock allied unit that really does its job, and even then it seems to be considered to be weaker than the Panzerwerfer. The Panzerwerfer itself is just incredibly good at the minute. The Scott I wouldn't consider that useful in general, and a recent thread seems to back that up:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/47357/the-m8a1
I don't feel I need to say anything about how bad the 25 pounders are. I wouldn't even consider them proper indirect fire since they require a unit in grenade range anyway.

The picture gets slightly better with doctrinal units:
Wehrmacht: Lefh
Soviet: ML-20 or B-4
USF: Priest or Calliope
UKF: Sexton

Of those units only the Calliope sees much use - but it also ties the USF into a doctrinal choice if they want any real form of indirect fire. This hugely limits playstyles to doctrines with indirect fire, otherwise you're relying on off map artillery which is usually slower and often requires large munitions investment - assuming whatever doctrine you're using even has something worth using.

I may have missed units, so please add any you think I've missed. I have left out mortars since they're generally lighter and easier to counter.

Another problem with late game artillery is that counter battery simply doesn't work for the most part. Even if you catch a panzerwerfer or stuka firing, the chances of any counter battery fire hitting it enough to kill it are slim - assuming you even have the choice. It makes artillery bombardment an incredibly low risk strategy.

I have made a guide to the use of UKF artillery such as the sexton and the Base 25pdrs.

HERE

I have made a guide to the use of UKF artillery such as the sexton and the Base 25pdrs.

HERE

Excellent! I´ve never thought of using them this way.

Excellent! I´ve never thought of using them this way.

Indeed. Once you come to the realisation on how to use UKF artillery it makes playing the faction so much EASIER.

The main problem with usf and ukf have their call-ins which are really supposed to make up for their lack of non-doc heavy arty, but they are just so underwhelming that they go unused. They should be huge parts of the factions. But they might as well not even be in the game right now And that's a huge problem.

Also heavy arty are completely overshadowed by rocket artillery since all they do well is AI which rocket arty just does better. All they were good for before was killing okw HQs but nefs got rid of that role. They need to define them better, probably by increasing their AT capabilities through extra damage or stun/crits. Because right now despite their high pen there natural scatter and rof make their at irrelevant.

My rundown of artillery:

The Calliope and Panzerwerfer are both overpowered and the Sexton, ML-20, and B4 are all terrible. All the static howitzers use too much population (they should drop to twelve from fifteen imo). The Scott is kind of a silly unit and I don't really get what the point of it is. British base artillery doesn't seem particularly good either.

Have to agree that rocket arty simply blows other forms out of the water, especially the Calliope and Panzerwerfer.

I'd like to see howitzers get a decent buff against armour as well - namely the crits mentioned above at least. It would also be nice to have as a tool against Jagdtigers/Elefants. An accuracy buff might make counter battery fire a bit more viable as well.

I'd still be concerned that, without significant buffs, the USF and UKF will be left with little viable artillery in their stock units.

increasing the pen on howitzers would go a long way to making them useful against vehicles.

increasing the pen on howitzers would go a long way to making them useful against vehicles.

Howitzer pen is already enough to pen every tank. The problem is that they are real innacurate and are lucky to hit any tank even once. They are lucky to get even a single shell to land on a tank and a single hit of 160 or 200 damage isn't really significant. And tanks aren't exactly going to sit in the barrage area and wait to get hit again.

That's why they need more damage or crits to make every hit more significant, or stun to open them up to being hit again.

Howitzer pen is already enough to pen every tank. The problem is that they are real innacurate and are lucky to hit any tank even once. They are lucky to get even a single shell to land on a tank and a single hit of 160 or 200 damage isn't really significant. And tanks aren't exactly going to sit in the barrage area and wait to get hit.

That's why they need more damage or crits to make every hit more significant, or stun to open them up to being hit again.

We don't need howitzers to be lasers, their kill potential is already fine. Only thing that should change with howitzers is dropping their cost to 450-500.

We don't need howitzers to be lasers, their kill potential is already fine. Only thing that should change with howitzers is dropping their cost to 450-500.

Their kill potential is worthless against tanks because they will never reach their potential. no one except noobs are going to sit there and be hit by multiple shells.

Their kill potential is worthless against tanks because they will never reach their potential. no one except noobs are going to sit there and be hit by multiple shells.

Why should artillery be so accurate and so damaging that it can reliably counter armor? You want long range no counter one shots every single game? Go use the calliope or panzerwerfer. OP arty is the most unfun type of gameplay, remember OP ML20 from a few months ago? The games better off with artillery not be spammed every single game. Its just a bunch of crap. The less people that abuse it, and more that play the game using support crew, tanks, and infantry positioning the better. Something artillery negates all of which.

Their kill potential is worthless against tanks because they will never reach their potential. no one except noobs are going to sit there and be hit by multiple shells.

Eh, in 4v4s there are good chances that you can catch heavy enemy armor off guard - particularly the jagdtiger or the king tiger. It's impossible to kill the tank, yeah, but 2-4 howie shells landing on target isn't hard to do. That being said, if you can damage the engine of any of those big fuckers, it's easy to barrage in their intended path and still get a lot of hits.

With priests I prioritize okw trucks, then heavy vehicles/blobs depending on the state of the game.

I'm surprised actually that the LeFH-18 doesn't get used more often, especially since two of the most popular Soviet doctrines - Shock Rifle and Guard Motor - have no real counters to it.

Haven't seen a scott in a long time, could use some buffs and reduced build time

Static arty is rarely worth building because it has less firepower, costs more (especially when you consider popcap), and it much harder to keep alive than rocket arty. Mobile tube arty just sucks in general.

I would like to see tube arty have a bit of a cost reduction, especially in the area of popcap requirements. That way they can function as a steady but less devastating alternative to rocket arty, while not being so expensive that you lose the game if it's taken out.

There is also the problem that if you are allies, building artillery becomes resource conversion of sorts. It converts 600 of your own manpower into an automatic Stuka bombing strike on that location.

This sort of one-click zero skill, zero micro, no counterplay approach to "balance" just doesn't mesh with the rest of the game. Yes, offmaps cost ammo, and artillery should be vulnerable to them, but not so much that any allied artillery is immediately invalidated with the choice of certain Axisc commanders. Imagine if there was a 500 ammo ability to destroy a Kingtiger anywhere on the map with no possibility of counterplay.

I normally hate homogenization, but some slightly different variant of brace for all static howitzers would be great.

Also any rocket or artillery shell that hits near a tank should definitely cause main gun temporarily disabled crits, vision slit damaged crit, or crew shocked crit. This would do much to make artillery more viable against tanks. You will notice that these crits do jack all if the artillery strike is not followed up by an assault that would exploit these crits, which is as it should be.

Also any rocket or artillery shell that hits near a tank should definitely cause main gun temporarily disabled crits, vision slit damaged crit, or crew shocked crit. This would do much to make artillery more viable against tanks. You will notice that these crits do jack all if the artillery strike is not followed up by an assault that would exploit these crits, which is as it should be.

This is definitely my favorite way to make them more relevant. Basically making heavy arty an armor debuffer unit. Though I think it should be reserved for the heavy arty units only, not the rocket artillery. Those are already good enough as anti infantry only units.

Both USF and UKF need non-doctrinal mobile artillery option. End of Topic.

Buffing shell artillery would do well for making them more valid choice compared to rocket arty. Doing crits with a certain range or direct hits would be awesome and give a player to decide between anti-infantry or soft anti-infantry/tank. However, what type of crits would there be? Crew stunned seems the most appropriate.