new AEC is overpowered

the AEC still came earlier than the puma (at least WAY earlier than the ost puma), and outclassed the puma in pretty much every aspect apart from range. also, the AEC is (or was) supposed to counter pretty much everything BUT the puma, so that comparison is void in and off of itself. 222s and HTs (flames?! where does ostheer get the ammo for that from? flame HT means 0 mines, no schrecks, no LMGs, no NOTHING) can be countered by small arms, especially if you do have some dedicated AT along with it.

Munis? For what? Yeah, cos you totally needed that early teller or schreks vs Brits. God forbid they might be stupid enough to build a UC. Grens trade pretty well vs the more expensive unblostered IS. Not to mention you'll always out-cap brits.

Since when has AEC ever 'outclassed puma in every way'? That's some pretty biased crack you're smoking. In a straight up fight (ignoring the Puma's range advantage) they're IDENTICAL.


Puma:
120 Damage
0.03/0.05 Accuracy (F/N)
3.98s Reload time
18 Target size
400 HP

AEC
120 Damage
0.03/0.05 Accuracy (F/N)
3.98 Reload time
18 Target size
400HP

AEC has 40 armour to the Puma's 25, but since they both have much higher pen (100 AEC, 120 Puma), that's irrelevant.

Stats Source


As I've already said, the issue with the AEC presently is the pacing. As for comparing with the Ost puma - that comes out too late anyway, could do with lower CP timing.

Munis? For what? Yeah, cos you totally needed that early teller or schreks vs Brits. God forbid they might be stupid enough to build a UC. Grens trade pretty well vs the more expensive unblostered IS. Not to mention you'll always out-cap brits.

Since when has AEC ever 'outclassed puma in every way'? That's some pretty biased crack you're smoking. In a straight up fight (ignoring the Puma's range advantage) they're IDENTICAL.


Puma:
120 Damage
0.03/0.05 Accuracy (F/N)
3.98s Reload time
18 Target size
400 HP

AEC
120 Damage
0.03/0.05 Accuracy (F/N)
3.98 Reload time
18 Target size
400HP

AEC has 40 armour to the Puma's 25, but since they both have much higher pen (100 AEC, 120 Puma), that's irrelevant.

Stats Source


As I've already said, the issue with the AEC presently is the pacing. As for comparing with the Ost puma - that comes out too late anyway, could do with lower CP timing.

like you said: better armor, better sight range, smoke.

ost has loads of ways to spend ammo early, and if they don't, they lose the early-mid game quite heavily. Grens without LMG don't even get close to IS fighting power. They're also more expensive to reinforce (so the argument of IS being more expensive is only relevant for the timing). Getting outcapped as brits vs. ostheer, i don't know how that would happen unless ost spams pios or gets osttruppen (doctrinal). no schrecks/fausts/tellers means that nothing can kill any vehicles (like the AEC) apart from a pak.

like you said: better armor, better sight range, smoke.

puma have 50 sight range as well, and both puma also have access to smoke.

Technically the ost puma smoke is doctrinal, but the one doctrine with puma also have access to smoke.

puma have 50 sight range as well, and both puma also have access to smoke.

Technically the ost puma smoke is doctrinal, but the one doctrine with puma also have access to smoke.

Puma also have 50 range to use that sight.

AEC have only 40.

Puma also have 50 range to use that sight.

AEC have only 40.

Puma costs more, has less armor, cannot fight infantry, comes later. Mechanized forgoes healing for several minutes.

centaur for example is still stronger than ostwind and comes earlier. bofors only seems "UP" because it was so ridiculously overpowered. it's still a nice area denial tool. churchills still have their batshit crazy grenades.

ukf still has enough "leftovers" from release like some of the auras that give crazy bonuses or REs raping even PGs when in cover... AEC also was "balanced" before, since it was an optional side-tech to counter light vehicles, like for example the luchs. people complained about it being "useless" (because, let's be honest, against ostheer it was) and relic made it into a 5 minute allrounder that can end the game on its own... i wouldn't exactly call that balanced.

Well, you pretty much never see a bofors past vet1 with like 20 kills.
Churchills lost HP, armor, and price nerf so much that you don't see anyone field them anymore.
Crocodile costs as much as Tiger but with less utility other than to scare away infantry since it also lost damage and range on it's flamer.
Churchills get penetrated by pretty much everything Axis has for a "heavy" armor lol. All it has is a big HP pool and that means it takes that much longer for it to repair. I'd rather have a decrease in HP and armor increase.

REs rape PGs when PGs are in cover? Video please. REs unupgraded by default only have a 4 man squad that requires close range to deal damage with their SMGs.

Oh yes... AEC was sooooooooooooooooooo "balanced" before that no one used them because for having mobility... they could never hit anything including vehicles on the move. Get chased by a puma and die. That's why people would rather have built a bofors or AT gun because the luchs would keep running and your AEC could chase but never hit it just to run into a shrek wall.

I'm not saying AEC is balanced but you're not admitting that UKF has been nerfed to the ground and that doesn't justify a strong AEC but please use a churchill and crocodile now and see how much utility you gain out of it.

Puma costs more, has less armor, cannot fight infantry, comes later. Mechanized forgoes healing for several minutes.

Unless you're going to get 3 AECs, then AEC costs more really.

Pumas coax got LMG42 DPS and ability can snipe last models and snipers, its AI isn't great, but to say it cannot fight infantry is pure bullshit.

You also don't forego anything as sturms can use med crates and backtech for battlegroup after the mechanized is current okw meta, you can't make it sound like a disadvantage, if it was any, it wouldn't be meta.

Comparing the doctrinal Puma to the non-doctrinal AEC is an argument that will get the AEC-lovers nowhere, the Puma is outclassed by the AEC because the AEC has MUCH better Anti-Infantry.

Comparing the doctrinal Puma to the non-doctrinal AEC is an argument that will get the AEC-lovers nowhere, the Puma is outclassed by the AEC because the AEC has MUCH better Anti-Infantry.

OH please. Is this your smurf account? you don't even have that many games listed. You play purely Axis and specifically OST.

People are also mentioning the OKW puma and you lump everyone as an AEC lover. Yes, AEC has strong AI abilities which will probably result in a smaller AOE nerf but all the pro Axis comments say that the puma has 0 AI abilities which is also untrue.

Please present information instead of just opinions and starting more hate instead of useful debate to resolve the problem. At the moment I only see Axis posting OP and coming up with counter unit examples to have other players post ACTUAL data to counter it.

Comparing the doctrinal Puma to the non-doctrinal AEC is an argument that will get the AEC-lovers nowhere, the Puma is outclassed by the AEC because the AEC has MUCH better Anti-Infantry.

OKW puma is doctrinal now?
Thats new.

You sure you're not in 2013 bro?

And look what I do now:

AEC is outclassed by Puma because Puma have MUCH longer range for AT.

Unless you're going to get 3 AECs, then AEC costs more really.

Pumas coax got LMG42 DPS and ability can snipe last models and snipers, its AI isn't great, but to say it cannot fight infantry is pure bullshit.

You also don't forego anything as sturms can use med crates and backtech for battlegroup after the mechanized is current okw meta, you can't make it sound like a disadvantage, if it was any, it wouldn't be meta.

Thats a load of bullshit and you know it. Brit t2 is cheapest in the game at 30 fuel. Plus the rearch of 15 fuel on the 50 fuel cost for the car.

30+65 fuel is more than 70 fuel for puma on top of the 50 fuel for mechanized? What the hell am I missing here?

The only actual thing worth noting it aimed shot for vet 1. Is a huge gimmick and is hardly something people are using every game. Puma will never scare away any infantry, its as threatening as a kubelwagon with more armor. The big old scary lmg42 is nothing like it used to be, you've got squads of lmg42 grens that are still getting rolled every game by rifles and sections, but a single lmg42 is supposed to be scary when AEC is plinking off models shot after shot 5 minutes into he game? Oh man.

Pfft, of course going battlegroup after mechanized is meta. You'd be stupid as hell to rely on 40 munition med crates to half heal 3 squads at a time for the rest of the match. By going with medic truck you delay the shwerer for several minutes. Necessitating call in infatry for mechanized because without either you will get rolled so hard. Without healing, every unit in okw army besides obers turns to marginally better ostruppen with way more bleed. You cannot go mechanized into shwerer unless you are a fool. Healing is always necessary. There is but one stop gap for foregoing healing and that is mobile reinforcement as seen with the ostheer, and atleast they have the option for medic bunkers and shitty med kits to go along with the 251. Something okw does not posses

Going battlegroup after mechanized is as meta as teching to t3 as brits or soviets.

40 muni vet 1 med kits for sturmpios. Kek what a big fat joke when infantry sections being mobile medic bunkers for 30 munitions. I have yet to see even one player ever use such a worthless overpriced ability. No aura, doesn't even fully heal, maximum of 3 heals. 40 munitions. Kek. 1 mine has twice the value as a box of med kits.

While im on the subject. Sturmpio med kits need aura healing just like brit med pack. OR, reduce cost to 30 munitions & increase heal rate to fully heal the squad using it. Currently the ability underperforms.

This is the only way I would ever consider sturmpio med kits to ever be a viable solution to forgoing battlegroup HQ. Because as it stands, it is not viable.

OKW puma is doctrinal now?
Thats new.

You sure you're not in 2013 bro?

And look what I do now:

AEC is outclassed by Puma because Puma have MUCH longer range for AT.

Ah the Kaitof strawman, unlike other Scrarecrows yours just scares away those reasoning skills you so desperately need - try building one that isn't composed totally of bullshit.

I wasn't talking about OKW, I was obviously talking about Wermacht, as have most of the people in this thread and the idea that a longer range for AT is a comparable trade for the AECs insane AI ability is just nonsense. You're talking shit like usual.

Thats a load of bullshit and you know it. Brit t2 is cheapest in the game at 30 fuel. Plus the rearch of 15 fuel on the 50 fuel cost for the car.

30+65 fuel is more than 70 fuel for puma on top of the 50 fuel for mechanized? What the hell am I missing here?

55 fuel for Mechanized lol. And you're forgetting the 15 fuel for the truck.

AEC: 30+15+50-20=75
OKW Puma: 15+50+70-10=125

... So you can literally get two AECs for the amount of fuel it takes an OKW player to get a Puma.

55 fuel for Mechanized lol. And you're forgetting the 15 fuel for the truck.

AEC: 30+15+50-20=75
OKW Puma: 15+55+70-10=130

... So you can literally get two AECs for the amount of fuel it takes an OKW player to get a Puma. And then you've still got 5 fuel left over.

My mistake forgot to tack on starting fuel and SwS truck. Putting it even more in favor of the brits. Comeback please katitof? Care to explain such disproportionate disparity?

"axis have panther, so its ok"

AEC is broken as fuck. Why are there 18 pages about this

AEC is broken as fuck. Why are there 18 pages about this

This with a Katitof-shaped cherry (he probably still has his) on top.