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OKW AA Truck

10 Jan 2016, 13:27 PM
#21
avatar of Putinist

Posts: 175

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 13:04 PMDomine
It's absolutely not free unless you can get it with 0 MP 0Munitions and 0 fuel.


If you buy a car and get a bonus tire with it, did you get that tire for free?


OT: It should have a side upgrade cost, as well as the other bonus features OKW get for teching. Relic has stated that they are considering it, so we simply have to wait a couple of months until they start patching again.
10 Jan 2016, 13:35 PM
#22
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 12:48 PMDomine


I get it when you say it's not expensive enough, but saying it's free is just like calling any other unit free, if you just ignore the cost.

The only 'free' things I can think of is UKF recon plane and Anvil lmgs.


How much you pay additionally to normal teching costs to get that AA?

Oh, that is right, ZERO.

Therefore, its free.

Really simple concept.

Oh and anvil RE LMGs have a cost since last year. Keep up with the changes.
10 Jan 2016, 14:19 PM
#23
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 13:35 PMKatitof


How much you pay additionally to normal teching costs to get that AA?

Oh, that is right, ZERO.

Therefore, its free.

Really simple concept.

Oh and anvil RE LMGs have a cost since last year. Keep up with the changes.



Except that it isn't. If you buy a Shreck upgrade, you get a shreck + cold immunity. Which of these two is for free?

If you buy a unit which has a vet 1 ability, and it has to be unlocked in a tier, is that for free? No. If Bazookas would cost 0 Munitions, would they be free? No they wouldn't, because you need to unlock them first.


If you buy a car and get a bonus tire with it, did you get that tire for free?


Go into your university and ask a professor of economics or informatics what he thinks about this.

You buy a car, and to this car you get a tire. This tire is not free as you need to buy the car first. If the tire costs 100$, it would be the same as if the car would cost 100$ less.
The tire would be free if you could go to the guy, get the tire and return with the tire and everything else you had with you.
10 Jan 2016, 14:23 PM
#24
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Don't feed him anymore guys :)
10 Jan 2016, 14:24 PM
#25
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 14:19 PMDomine



Except that it isn't. If you buy a Shreck upgrade, you get a shreck + cold immunity. Which of these two is for free?

If you buy a unit which has a vet 1 ability, and it has to be unlocked in a tier, is that for free? No. If Bazookas would cost 0 Munitions, would they be free? No they wouldn't, because you need to unlock them first.


You're comparing apples to oranges.

When you buy P4, does it come with pintle upgraded already?
When you buy volks, do they come with shrecks?
10 Jan 2016, 14:27 PM
#26
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 14:24 PMKatitof


You're comparing apples to oranges.




No I'm NOT comparing apples to oranges. USF teching units like Major or Lieutenant as well as OKW HQ abilities are not free, because you pay for them.

Wether you pay a lot or not or wether the price is justified is irrelevant, because they are not free. If the title would be 'OKW Schwerer HQ not expensive enough' then there would be nothing that is objectively disprovable.

If I would make Shrecks unlockable like USF, put the unlock costs at 500 Munitions, and each Shreck 0 munitions, then the Shreck would NOT be for free.

If it WOULD be, then an unlock cost of 500 Munitions and 0 munitions Shreck cost would result in an absolute increase of Shrecks on the field per game. Do you think this would be the case?
10 Jan 2016, 14:37 PM
#27
avatar of Spinflight

Posts: 680

Quite a problem for Brits using Tactical support regiment... Locks down fuel making it difficult to get tanks ( to kill it), shoots down recon and also the air resupply planes... Generally only one of them but if that is your AT gun it limits your counters considerably.

Leaves you with Piats against it which are otherwise less than useful.
10 Jan 2016, 15:57 PM
#28
avatar of Putinist

Posts: 175

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 14:19 PMDomine
Go into your university and ask a professor of economics or informatics what he thinks about this.

You buy a car, and to this car you get a tire. This tire is not free as you need to buy the car first. If the tire costs 100$, it would be the same as if the car would cost 100$ less.
The tire would be free if you could go to the guy, get the tire and return with the tire and everything else you had with you.



I was directing the comparison to the quoted sentence, you don't have a direct cost to unlock the flak (0 mp, 0 mun, 0 fuel). You undoubtedly have an indirect cost in the form of a requirement that has to be fulfilled (building the structure, or buying the car). If you won't call a product that has no direct cost but needs certain conditions to be fulfilled (indirect cost) free, I won't argue with you.

It feels silly to discuss the term "free" here when everybody knows what is referred, i.e. OKW getting powerful perks while having the same(fuel), or cheaper(mp) teching costs as other factions, so I won't play along.

10 Jan 2016, 16:38 PM
#29
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

some people are really intent on nerfing axis and what about some of the allied units and abilites which are never talked about them huhh..on topic the trucks cost manpower and fuel themselves so yeah you pay for it...and its'a faction okw doesn't gets mg in their core or snipers or mortars,they don't get caches just like usf have crew repair and best medium tanks at expense of no heavy tanks...its a faction flavour...if they get tech upgrade then the there should no actual cost to trucks and the knee jerk hot fix increase in okw fuel tanks should be reverted and instead teching should be more expensive
10 Jan 2016, 16:53 PM
#30
avatar of IA3 - HH

Posts: 289

L2P isssssssue
10 Jan 2016, 17:00 PM
#31
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Oh truck factions.
10 Jan 2016, 17:39 PM
#32
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

OKW upgrades on trucks is a hold over from when they were resource limited. These bonuses were to help them maintain presence on the field because they would have fewer units than enemy. Currently too effective for cost.

In the next patch I fully expect all OKW trucks to lose their free upgrades and require direct tech to unlock.

Schwer is a poorly designed unit anyway since it completely negates infantry play, pulls a point out of contestion until at least one tank is around, gets to shoot down planes (again when OKW could potentially not afford to build a dedicated AA unit), and is a simple upgrade to all other factions tech structures.
10 Jan 2016, 17:45 PM
#33
avatar of Putinist

Posts: 175

some people are really intent on nerfing axis and what about some of the allied units and abilites which are never talked about them huhh..


You have 4 threads discussing allied units and aspects on the front page alone, so your allegation that it's never talked about is simply not true. The intentention for most people isn't to straight out nerf the trucks, but to rework them. Don't interpret everything as black and white.

on topic the trucks cost manpower and fuel themselves so yeah you pay for it...


They do, but OKW tech in total isn't more expensive than other factions which it logically would be if the truck toys were considered.

if they get tech upgrade then the there should no actual cost to trucks and the knee jerk hot fix increase in okw fuel tanks should be reverted and instead teching should be more expensive


Yes, something like this would be a good rework. Trucks could still cost to deploy, that's just a matter of bringing the tech cost in line with other factions (which it is fuel wise already), but some vehicles should definitely be cheaper. It would also give you an option to skip out on, say repair units and the flak to get higher field presence or weapon upgrades (if side techs doesn't include any fuel cost).
10 Jan 2016, 17:53 PM
#34
avatar of SpottheCat

Posts: 3

some people are really intent on nerfing axis and what about some of the allied units and abilites which are never talked about them huhh..on topic the trucks cost manpower and fuel themselves so yeah you pay for it...and its'a faction okw doesn't gets mg in their core or snipers or mortars,they don't get caches just like usf have crew repair and best medium tanks at expense of no heavy tanks...its a faction flavour...if they get tech upgrade then the there should no actual cost to trucks and the knee jerk hot fix increase in okw fuel tanks should be reverted and instead teching should be more expensive


The whole point of paying for the trucks now is that OKW has 100% resource income.

It was faction flavor because OKW had less resource income, so they got free stuff to make up for that. Now, they have 100% income, so it makes no sense. Just like it makes no sense for USF to get free squads with techup while the old factions dont. Just because he is highlighting one thing doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't care about other things.

At the very least, these perks sharply discount techups compared to the old factions, which would have to sidetech or at least delay their tech by building other things.

10 Jan 2016, 18:02 PM
#35
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500




I was directing the comparison to the quoted sentence, you don't have a direct cost to unlock the flak (0 mp, 0 mun, 0 fuel). You undoubtedly have an indirect cost in the form of a requirement that has to be fulfilled (building the structure, or buying the car). If you won't call a product that has no direct cost but needs certain conditions to be fulfilled (indirect cost) free, I won't argue with you.

It feels silly to discuss the term "free" here when everybody knows what is referred, i.e. OKW getting powerful perks while having the same(fuel), or cheaper(mp) teching costs as other factions, so I won't play along.




There is an indirect cost as well as a direct one. Indirect is buying the truck, direct is the cost itself. If you call the Flak part free, then you are blatantly lying. There is nothing to discuss about, this unit is not free. If it would be free, I could buy an infinite number of them in a finite timespan. But I cannot.

Otherwise I could say the P4's main gun is free, it should only have the mgs to start with, the gun should be unlockable. I hope I don't need to explain how utterly retarded this would be.
10 Jan 2016, 18:24 PM
#36
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Please, don't feed them. It's their daily portion of food in the net.
Keep it away from them and they will slowly perish :)
10 Jan 2016, 18:26 PM
#37
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500

Please, don't feed them. It's their daily portion of food in the net.
Keep it away from them and they will slowly perish :)



Son, it doesn't matter what you say. You started sprouting bs and you got called out on it now you go back to the 'b-but he is just a troll' facade. rank 5000+ 4v4 is waiting for you.
10 Jan 2016, 18:53 PM
#38
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

The truck is fine. It dies so quickly
10 Jan 2016, 18:55 PM
#39
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 18:53 PMJohnnyB
The truck is fine. It dies so quickly

10 Jan 2016, 19:02 PM
#40
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 18:55 PMKatitof



I like that gallic helmet :thumb:
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