ostheer teir 2 changes

I think adding the SdKfz250 to Tier2 would be a better idea, so Pgrens could get inside and chase that goddamn stuart.

I think adding the SdKfz250 to Tier2 would be a better idea, so Pgrens could get inside and chase that goddamn stuart.

Yes and lol chase everything else too. flank mortars, mgs, bunkers, snipers, mobile artillery, FRP with a super low fuel cost vehicle.

Give me panzershreks instead of AT rifles and I'll do it more on a M3.

WC51 Jeep is doctrinal but can be effectively used with a captain.

So no... you have a horrible idea. SdKfz250 remains doctrinal.

Care to share your better idea? What is OST supposed to do during the "light vehicle domination phase"? Beat their own dicks?

Care to share your better idea? What is OST supposed to do during the "light vehicle domination phase"? Beat their own dicks?

The 250 call-in nobody uses in a lot of commanders could be made into a build able 250 from T2, like T34/85 and EZ8.

Care to share your better idea? What is OST supposed to do during the "light vehicle domination phase"? Beat their own dicks?

You're right, what are they going to do? They've only got the best snare in game on their core infantry for free,tier 0 MGs with armor-piercing rounds at vet 1, Teller mines that one-shot all light vehicles, not just one, but two of the best infantry AT weapons on a single squad, arguably the best AT gun in game and a cheap scout-car that can kill or injure anything short of a light tank. Completely helpless.

The 222 should probably get buffed, then light vehicle play will probably be pretty fair.

LMG+gren support holds off rifles+m20 fine, 222 comes out early enough to counter.

Smoke, M20 and AA HT and get rekt Ostheers.

Why don't you just field 2 222? those are incredibly cheap.

No. In MP is too expensive imo

Give them a Panzer III that's locked until T3 is researched (not built, just researched).

Ostheer would retake it's place as my favorite faction if that ever happened.

The 222 should probably get buffed, then light vehicle play will probably be pretty fair.

The 222 is a light car, totally different classes.

The 222 is a light car, totally different classes.

Its utterly incapable of harming infantry or snipers, and is made of tissue paper. Increase cost, armor, and acc or damage. Upping the 222 AOE to like 1.0-1.5 and giving it like puma armor for like 40 fuel seems fair.

Care to share your better idea? What is OST supposed to do during the "light vehicle domination phase"? Beat their own dicks?

How about the same thing they always did, which worked for them since release?

222 vs "light" lights, shreck pgrens/tellers+PaK vs light tanks.

Its utterly incapable of harming infantry or snipers, and is made of tissue paper. Increase cost, armor, and acc or damage. Upping the 222 AOE to like 1.0-1.5 and giving it like puma armor for like 40 fuel seems fair.

There are at least 2 top players who disagree. Watch recent ESL finals.

Snip

The 222 got buffed and it is extremely potent now.

However it is still a light car, nothing else.

222 should be changed as it's combat role is limited against anything not LT tech as it's easy to ward off with small-arms, AT grenades, and doesn't deal enough damage to properly harass units on the flanks, especially since its coaxial has such a limited traverse. With only 5 degrees of traverse, the coaxial isn't that effective against units up close, particularly if they're retreating and you're chasing. It's only really there to provide 50 sight and chip light vehicles which demolish it and can keep pace with it even if it tries to run. It should be an actual combat scout vehicle. The autocannon just puts it in too close against light armour that arrives shortly after the 222 before it can make a heavy impact while anything not a scout car pushes it away easily or kills it.

It should be between a scout car and a light tank.

-Armour from 9/4.5 to 12/6
-Cost from 210/15 to 260/35
-Health from 240 to 280.
-Coaxial MG now gains accuracy bonuses with veterancy.
-Autocannon far range accuracy set to 0.03 from 0.025.
-222 autocannon can now attack ground.
-Coaxial MG now has 10 degree traverse to the left, right, and up.
-Coaxial MG Reload from 6/6.5 to 4/4.5.
-2cm autocannon range from 40 to 45.
-2cm autocannon now has x9 accuracy against infantry. (0.54/0.36/0.27 vs inf)
-Acceleration from 2.4 to 2.8.
-Veterancy requirements adjusted to match new price.

Now the 222 can harass infantry effectively while resisting small-arms. Furthermore, the range buff allows the 222 to kite other light tanks/vehicles rather than boosting the autocannon to insane levels against other light armour. At the same time, it's not dirt cheap enough to spam, still isn't impervious against anything above small-arms, but is a tad bit more tanky against the Allied light tanks which would thrash it in a head-on fight.

You're right, what are they going to do? They've only got the best snare in game on their core infantry for free,tier 0 MGs with armor-piercing rounds at vet 1, Teller mines that one-shot all light vehicles, not just one, but two of the best infantry AT weapons on a single squad, arguably the best AT gun in game and a cheap scout-car that can kill or injure anything short of a light tank. Completely helpless.

Shh you're going to ruin everyone's fun of watching WTFthis's crusade to show the world how OpieOP all Allied light vehicles are.

Don't you realize that other light vehicles can damage 222s and that means you have to actually micro and support it? I mean, why shouldn't a light vehicle that costs roughly the same as a M20 completely wreck it without a fight or better counter a more expensive 50 fuel AA HT that requires stupid amounts of micro or 70 fuel Stuart? Even with all those other counters it's way too much effort to use combined arms even if they do work- still OP.

You keep fighting the good fight WTFthis - God Speed!

That being said I really like Mirage's suggestions :3

222 should be changed as it's combat role is limited against anything not LT tech as it's easy to ward off with small-arms, AT grenades, and doesn't deal enough damage to properly harass units on the flanks, especially since its coaxial has such a limited traverse. With only 5 degrees of traverse, the coaxial isn't that effective against units up close, particularly if they're retreating and you're chasing. It's only really there to provide 50 sight and chip light vehicles which demolish it and can keep pace with it even if it tries to run. It should be an actual combat scout vehicle. The autocannon just puts it in too close against light armour that arrives shortly after the 222 before it can make a heavy impact while anything not a scout car pushes it away easily or kills it.

It should be between a scout car and a light tank.

-Armour from 9/4.5 to 12/6
-Cost from 210/15 to 260/35
-Health from 240 to 280.
-Coaxial MG now gains accuracy bonuses with veterancy.
-Autocannon far range accuracy set to 0.03 from 0.025.
-222 autocannon can now attack ground.
-Coaxial MG now has 10 degree traverse to the left, right, and up.
-Coaxial MG Reload from 6/6.5 to 4/4.5.
-2cm autocannon range from 40 to 45.
-2cm autocannon now has x9 accuracy against infantry. (0.54/0.36/0.27 vs inf)
-Acceleration from 2.4 to 2.8.
-Veterancy requirements adjusted to match new price.

Now the 222 can harass infantry effectively while resisting small-arms. Furthermore, the range buff allows the 222 to kite other light tanks/vehicles rather than boosting the autocannon to insane levels against other light armour. At the same time, it's not dirt cheap enough to spam, still isn't impervious against anything above small-arms, but is a tad bit more tanky against the Allied light tanks which would thrash it in a head-on fight.

I like this suggestion, but I think 45 range and 280 health is unneeded. I'd just put 2cm damage from 20 to 25.

222 should be changed as it's combat role is limited against anything not LT tech as it's easy to ward off with small-arms, AT grenades, and doesn't deal enough damage to properly harass units on the flanks, especially since its coaxial has such a limited traverse. With only 5 degrees of traverse, the coaxial isn't that effective against units up close, particularly if they're retreating and you're chasing. It's only really there to provide 50 sight and chip light vehicles which demolish it and can keep pace with it even if it tries to run. It should be an actual combat scout vehicle. The autocannon just puts it in too close against light armour that arrives shortly after the 222 before it can make a heavy impact while anything not a scout car pushes it away easily or kills it.

It should be between a scout car and a light tank.

-Armour from 9/4.5 to 12/6
-Cost from 210/15 to 260/35
-Health from 240 to 280.
-Coaxial MG now gains accuracy bonuses with veterancy.
-Autocannon far range accuracy set to 0.03 from 0.025.
-222 autocannon can now attack ground.
-Coaxial MG now has 10 degree traverse to the left, right, and up.
-Coaxial MG Reload from 6/6.5 to 4/4.5.
-2cm autocannon range from 40 to 45.
-2cm autocannon now has x9 accuracy against infantry. (0.54/0.36/0.27 vs inf)
-Acceleration from 2.4 to 2.8.
-Veterancy requirements adjusted to match new price.

Now the 222 can harass infantry effectively while resisting small-arms. Furthermore, the range buff allows the 222 to kite other light tanks/vehicles rather than boosting the autocannon to insane levels against other light armour. At the same time, it's not dirt cheap enough to spam, still isn't impervious against anything above small-arms, but is a tad bit more tanky against the Allied light tanks which would thrash it in a head-on fight.

I like this suggestion, but I think 45 range and 280 health is unneeded. I'd just put 2cm damage from 20 to 25. The 222 is too cheap and its also too weak.

222 should be changed as it's combat role is limited against anything not LT tech as it's easy to ward off with small-arms, AT grenades, and doesn't deal enough damage to properly harass units on the flanks, especially since its coaxial has such a limited traverse. With only 5 degrees of traverse, the coaxial isn't that effective against units up close, particularly if they're retreating and you're chasing. It's only really there to provide 50 sight and chip light vehicles which demolish it and can keep pace with it even if it tries to run. It should be an actual combat scout vehicle. The autocannon just puts it in too close against light armour that arrives shortly after the 222 before it can make a heavy impact while anything not a scout car pushes it away easily or kills it.

It should be between a scout car and a light tank.

-Armour from 9/4.5 to 12/6
-Cost from 210/15 to 260/35
-Health from 240 to 280.
-Coaxial MG now gains accuracy bonuses with veterancy.
-Autocannon far range accuracy set to 0.03 from 0.025.
-222 autocannon can now attack ground.
-Coaxial MG now has 10 degree traverse to the left, right, and up.
-Coaxial MG Reload from 6/6.5 to 4/4.5.
-2cm autocannon range from 40 to 45.
-2cm autocannon now has x9 accuracy against infantry. (0.54/0.36/0.27 vs inf)
-Acceleration from 2.4 to 2.8.
-Veterancy requirements adjusted to match new price.

Now the 222 can harass infantry effectively while resisting small-arms. Furthermore, the range buff allows the 222 to kite other light tanks/vehicles rather than boosting the autocannon to insane levels against other light armour. At the same time, it's not dirt cheap enough to spam, still isn't impervious against anything above small-arms, but is a tad bit more tanky against the Allied light tanks which would thrash it in a head-on fight.

Soooooooooo, why do you think the 222 should be able to outperform every other light vehicle in the game? Then, also let it be able to kill infantry, scout, flank ambulances and get away, kill snipers, and AA. OST already has mortars and snipers for infantry counter and MGs to hold ground.

Why don't you just use a commander that can call in a 250 halftrack.. use panzergrens to kill infantry and panzerhrek upgrade it to kill vehicles. Stop giving a vehicle that specializes already in sniper counter, AA, and scout into an all in one package.

Soooooooooo, why do you think the 222 should be able to outperform every other light vehicle in the game? Then, also let it be able to kill infantry, scout, flank ambulances and get away, kill snipers, and AA. OST already has mortars and snipers for infantry counter and MGs to hold ground.

How does it outperform them even with these changes exactly? It's not exaclty murder on wheels vs inf like Quads, T-70, etc. It still losses horribly to the other vehicles above scout cars horribly in a head-on fight and it doesn't have increased damage meaning it still takes the same number of 2cm shots to kill.

The 222 should perform like a scout car, because it is a scout car.