Poll: Should OKW Volks have their shrecks removed/modified?

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 09:52 AM__deleted__

if they give shrecks to stumrpios it weill mean no shrecks at all. In 1v1 you can maximally make 2 pios without bleeding like pig.

You will have one with shreck and one with sweeper. So your mid game composition will be something like:

luchs , 3 volks , one stg squad - stumrpio and one shreck squad

And USA will have 2 rifles with 1 bar, cpatain with 2 zoooks , 2 normal riflemen and a stuart.

Guess whitch one of them will win ?

(rifles will roflstomp your infantry and stuart + captain will hold against shrecks rather easily).


I think we both play different gamemodes and that is the problem

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 11:35 AMBlalord

USF will plant even more mines when he see that you went double Pio with Shrek, USF infantries will still rape OKW infantry, Double Stuart into Pershing works very well

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 11:48 AMFiresparks

I assume the USF are just going to be sweeping out mines with the force?

If you're going to force the OKW to get two sturm for at least one sweeper, then the USF should be forced to get at least one Rear Echelon for a sweeper as well.




OKW is the faction with easier access to mines. The OKW doesn't need to worry about mines against USF unless they see a m20. Assuming we are going with Hector's scenario, the USF are not going to have mines.

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 11:51 AMBlalord

Where is the difficulty having a RE sweeper ?

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 12:30 PMThunderhun

Do you guys realise that only the M20 can lay mines for USF? Normal mines are in 1 doctrine...and even if the usf player does that, there wouldn't be much of a muni stockpile left for weapon upgrades.

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 12:38 PMKatitof

Arguably they are in 4, but lets be hones, when was last time anyone have seen assault engies last time?

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 12:06 PMFiresparks

Hector's scenario give roughly the same resources to both side, except the USF doesn't get a minesweeper, while the OKW does.


a Rear echolen with sweeper will cost extra resources.

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 10:49 AMThunderhun

You do know that Sturmpios would have double shrecks (like they used to). Enough to hold off light armor with fausts and 1 raketen.

And mid game would be more like this: luchs, 3 volks (prob some with weapon upgrade), 1 Sturmpio with shrecks (as sweepers are not needed vs USA unless someone tries inf. company). 1 raketen and prob some doctrinal infantry/mg-34. Maybe a few mines...should be enough to stall the allies.

Guess which one of them will win? Who uses his units better.

(And take a look at my playedcard before commenting something like not playing the same mod)

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 12:30 PMThunderhun

Do you guys realise that only the M20 can lay mines for USF? Normal mines are in 1 doctrine...and even if the usf player does that, there wouldn't be much of a muni stockpile left for weapon upgrades.

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 14:07 PM__deleted__

They will need to go always sturmpio and 3 volks into elite infantry or else USA will stomp them.

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 08:35 AMThunderhun

Fun little fact, Sturmpios used to have shrecks (thus they have the voice lines for them).

Jump back to quoted post29 Dec 2015, 23:22 PMdOPEnEWhAIRCUT

The effective range of a schreck however is comparable to a faust. Allied players don't typically need to worry about Gren fausts because Ost has so many other munition costing abilities and upgrades while OKW has very few non-doctrine choices (however I've seen players like SPrice purposely float munitions against USF for enough fausts to take out the first light vehicle). Microing and keeping your distance is just as effective against schrecks as it is against fausts if you stay just at the max range of your light vehicle, and if you bounce between max range and just outside of max the aim time prevents schrecks from firing. Even if volks are able to get a rocket off when youre sitting at max range its extremely unlikely it will connect. Upgraded M20 will take 3 shots btw, and it has the ability to fall back behind lines and repair using the vehicle crew and jump right back in.

While flanking with a squad outside of your opponents vision and being able to get a faust off is rewarding, it's even more rewarding to punish volks blobs as allies using suppression, indirect fire, mines etc. And surpisingly enough, it's so much easier to do than it is to actually use a volks blob to take out medium armor against any half competent opponent. I'm actually happy to see an OKW player group the majority of his infantry together, it means I can outcap him, and that I can force a retreat on him rather easily with indirect. And even better, If i know the location of his BGHQ, I can continue to punish with things like rocket arty and white phosphorous, or go in for a big crush.

I understand that you're speaking mostly in terms of experiences inside of 3v3+, but balance on those levels has more to do with inflated resource incomes, map resource lay outs, and team coordination than anything else. Making balance changes to all game modes in order to try and fix issues within those 2 game modes would be a terrible balance decision and if i understood this thread correctly is not the prerogative ATM.

I also left this in that same thread, also ignored by everyone:

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 14:23 PMFluffi

messed-up voice lines where their voice suddenly changes. It's quite noticeable.


I don't like the idea of Panzerschrecks on Sturms, because it would make them very similar to Panzergrenadiers. And it doesn't really suit an engineering unit.

An MP40 upgrade would be nice as there are absolutely no MP40s in the OKW. But the weapon was produced a lot. Of course, an upgradeable MP40 would have seperate stats. Such an upgrade would also be a nice nod to CoH 1 Volks.

If they were to just loose the Panzerschreck without getting anything new, then I'd see their recent price increase to 250mp as unjustified.

Lastly, if people hate a-moving Schrecks, the situation could be improved if Schrecks were made to be used more defensively. I imagine a longer initial aim time and maybe a decreased range could have such an effect. The whole mobility plus AT could be the main nuisance to many people here.

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 14:07 PM__deleted__

i meant how much it will weaken OKW because they generally loose 4 stgs with that upgrade so they will need to always rely on elite infantry.

If you look at it from any angle it wont help OKW.

They will need to go always sturmpio and 3 volks into elite infantry or else USA will stomp them.

stuart >luchs , stuart will fear only 1 squad whitch can be kited (right now okw can get 2 shrecks and an raketen) ,

riflemen with bars and captrain with zooks > volks and also agains luchs becuase sutart have shellshock , they have snades and zooks

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 16:57 PMThunderhun

Then how come Ostheer can stop Stuart with double shreck squads, fausts and ATG my dear USF commander??

Your scenario isn't valid because of this, and don't act like USF can beat every and all axis army

They are always going sturmp + 3 volks. Volks get weapon upgrade (mp-40 as some1 claimed) to make up for the shreck loss to help against allied infantry. Or doctrinal infantry is enough.

Stuart isn't that deadly if you consider a double shreck + a hidden raketen + panzerfausts, maybe a Luchs lurking around. Maybe it can kite the OKW but definietly not a GG.

Either way, removing shrecks from volks and giving them AI upgrade, maybe adding AT to other squads is a good idea to make OKW less blobby an frustrating.

Also what's this USF Cavalry Commander you've mentioned? Even better with the armor/infantry company..I'd fight gladly against them than Callis or Pershings.

Cheers

Jump back to quoted post30 Dec 2015, 17:25 PM__deleted__

Maybe Ostheer does well with fausts ? If OKW does not have fausts and volks lookse shreck they are done for good.

Also maybe ostheer does it well because lmg grens can hold line well while puma is waiting in garrage ?

And maybe it is because ostheer sniper that bleed USA army like pig ?

Or maybe because of sustainable suprresion platofrm ?

I dont know but Ostheer can easier counter USA as whole than OKW that loose shrecks on volks and get on then sturmpios.

Jump back to quoted post29 Dec 2015, 17:49 PMAustralian Magic

Uhhh, what?

Flanked raketen can reatreat. Flanked ZiS or 57mm cannot.
What soviet's have to hold the line agasint tanks? PTRS? Only ZiS gun. Not to mention that Raketen is T0 unit which can cloak.
So what's SU or USF mid-game AT option? PTRS? Zooks? As AT they only rely on AT guns, but OKW cannot rely on AT gun which can retreat?