T-34/76 feels plain pathetic

in COH2, the T-34/76 feels just too pathetic, the unit only exists for "RAM" ability.....

My personal suggestion:

1."Ram" should be unlock by Vet 1, while German side got Blitzkrieg to out run the Ram, or German Assault Guns can "Shock" enemy tanks for 5s at Vet 1. And make "Ram" cost ammunition.

2. Give the T-34/76 proper armor(it's armor is actually better then a PZIV at side and rear, and equivalent frontal armor), Proper Gun penetration ( bouncing off PZ IV and STUG III rear armor is ridiculous), Proper gun dmg, 80--->120

thoughts? Oh, T-34/76 is not cheap at all in this game

in COH2, the T-34/76 feels just too pathetic, the unit only exists for "RAM" ability.....

My personal suggestion:

1."Ram" should be unlock by Vet 1, while German side got Blitzkrieg to out run the Ram, or German Assault Guns can "Shock" enemy tanks for 5s at Vet 1. And make "Ram" cost ammunition.

2. Give the proper armor(it's armor is actually better then a PZIV at side and rear, and equivalent frontal armor), Proper Gun penetration ( bouncing off PZ IV and STUG III rear armor is ridiculous), Proper gun dmg, 80--->120

thoughts? Oh, T-34/76 is not cheap at all in this game

1. Blitzkrieg has no penalty. but Ram has serious penalty. (can't shoot, and can't move)

2. P4 is strong enough now. Gun damage of P4 is 160 now. OK?

1. Blitzkrieg has no penalty. but Ram has serious penalty. (can't shoot, and can't move)

2. P4 is strong enough now. Gun damage of P4 is 160 now. OK?

sry for my misleading comment, I mean T-34/76 should get those changes, while restricting the "ram" ability for "Ram" purpose

yes, PZ IV got Price reduction, Damage Doubled, Reload reduced is previous patch...... so much for the balance

it's not completely useless as once you have two out, they play alot better.

as much i liked the fuel increase to slow the rushing of t-34s. i agree they need some AT buffs. they can kill stugs only with proper positioning (equal cost units, ok with this) and 1v1 with ostwind let's the t-34 live with roughly 25% health (ostwind more expensive but should be focus inf and light veh. not ok). so let's reduce the absurd inf damage the t-34 dishes out right now (can 2-3 shot squads) and give it some AT power.

armor increase would be too much, especially since the t-34/85 is supposed to use the same chasis with equal armor/hp stats. just bigger gun. so make the t-34/76 somewhere in between the current t-34/76 and the t-34/85

EDIT:

panzer4 is also 120 fuel guys...and absolutely sucked before the big patch. lower the damage just slightly and leave the rest: you've got a balanced p4. i'd rather them change the russian armor than nerf the german ones. german armor is pretty balanced across the board imo

it's not completely useless as once you have two out, they play alot better.

as much i liked the fuel increase to slow the rushing of t-34s. i agree they need some AT buffs. they can kill stugs only with proper positioning (equal cost units) and 1v1 with ostwind, let's the t-34 live with roughly 25% health. so let's reduce the absurd inf damage the t-34 dishes out right now (can 2-3 shot squads) and give it some AT power.

armor increase would be too much, especially since the t-34/85 is supposed to use the same chasis with equal armor/hp stats. just bigger gun. so make the t-34/76 somewhere in between the current t-34/76 and the t-34/85

T-34/76 lacks everything, in-terms of armor,penetrating by a 37mm gun at front is unacceptable......yes, a proper AT ability will make it useful again, and I personally against nerfing the anti-infantry capability, for PZIV won't do any worse in a AI role

T-34/85 now comes at package of 2, which you should pay 720/260(!!!) for call-in, T-34/85 now is okey, but 110 penetration makes it always loss to a cheaper PZIV.......

T-34/85 needs a penetration rise from 110(!!!) to 140~150 (which inferior than a Tiger&Panther tank)

and again, I think restricting the "Ram" ability and give T-34 series tanks proper performance is the first step to Tank meta

sry for my misleading comment, I mean T-34/76 should get those changes, while restricting the "ram" ability for "Ram" purpose

yes, PZ IV got Price reduction, Damage Doubled, Reload reduced is previous patch...... so much for the balance

Oh sorry. This is my mistake. my Dyslexia...

would like to see the t-34/85 back to single call in. and wouldn't be against an armor pen buff on it as well.

the t 34 /85 need sa hp or armour boost, its damage atm is meh and it still dies like a dog comedian at an all night cat's comedy club.
Not to mention the current cost is so ridiculous, if your willing to save up that much mp and fuel you might as well go for hte isu 152 or is-2 doctrines.

I agree. The T-34/76 as it stands right now is completely useless, except for his ram ability, which is OP. The T-34 needs a complete overhaul in scope and functionality imo.

Have to agree. Can't see a reason to get a T-34 over essentially anything that costs a comparable amount of fuel.

You have ram, modest AT, good AI, can force a retreat from any pure infantry. Cheaper than a P-IV, more versatile (and slightly cheaper) than a StuG, cheaper than an Ostwind. It's not really the mainline swan-off-by-itself vehicle that a P-IV or Ostwind can be but it's a good infantry support tank and a T-34 fleet can be really solid. Also, on the fuel cost - your alternative as a Soviet is basically either things without straight-up AI and with static turrets or the T-70 which is great but also can be killed by a teller mine or shreks.

@Ugbear - don't really see why ramming shouldn't be part of the tank meta. In particular, ramming is something you *don't* want to use a vetted tank for. You don't even really want to do it with an unvetted tank if it's avoidable.

So use the T70. It melts infantry and can be out at like 8 minutes.

You have ram, modest AT, good AI, can force a retreat from any pure infantry. Cheaper than a P-IV, more versatile (and slightly cheaper) than a StuG, cheaper than an Ostwind. It's not really the mainline swan-off-by-itself vehicle that a P-IV or Ostwind can be but it's a good infantry support tank and a T-34 fleet can be really solid. Also, on the fuel cost - your alternative as a Soviet is basically either things without straight-up AI and with static turrets or the T-70 which is great but also can be killed by a teller mine or shreks.

@Ugbear - don't really see why ramming shouldn't be part of the tank meta. In particular, ramming is something you *don't* want to use a vetted tank for. You don't even really want to do it with an unvetted tank if it's avoidable.

1: Panzer IV is only 40MP/20fuel more expensive than a T-34/76, with every German player in game picking up the "Opel Blitz Truck"(unless they didn't reach level 45),20fuel difference is really neglectable.

2. In-terms of Anti-infantry role, the PZIV's main gun actually can do better than T-34/76, PZIV's scatter is 6, T-34/76 is 5.1, but PZIV got doubled Alpha than T-34/76, a good infantry support tank, PZIV can do that as-well..

3."T-34/76 fleet can be really solid", SAME as PZIV fleet, and PZIV will eat a T-34/76 alive in front of a Zis-3(literally), and PZIV can beat down a more expensive T-34/85 at ease.

3. T-34/76 do merely no damage vs. Stug III at front engagement, flanking maneuver is considered offensive movement, if you get hit by a single Panzerfaust or PG support, you are as good as dead.(even during a successful flanking maneuver, Stug III can took at least 5 shoot from T-34/76, which tooks at least 4*4.75=30s to finish off the stug III, ironically, stugs rear armor is slightly better than T-34/76's main gun penetration,that means 5 shoot-kill is just too ideal)

4. T-34/76 can beat a ostwind, yes, and ostwind can do decent amount of damage to T-34/76 as well, but do T-34/76 supposed to be damaged by a ostwind?

5. The entire soviet T3 will be smashed by any ostheer tank....Or you can say, why don't you go T4? So, what's the meaning of soviet T3? Paying 275MP/90 fuel to get a Quad-AA which AA capability is worse then the turret mounted MG42 machine gun? And, The first T-70 rush can be very annoying.......but 3min after that, nothing gonna pay off the 275/fuel investment....

6.My proposal is give the T-34 series a capability to stand its own a little bit, so that
a PZIV won't be able to eat a T-34/76 in front of a Zis-3, Or a PanzerIV won't be able to smash a T-34/85 frontally with half of the HP left......if they give the T-34 series proper performance as a "TANK" , then they can do something about the "Ram" ability, but right now, they are only exist for "Ram"

7. Again...... T-34 is just plain pathetic, really needs a tweak

Agreed T34 needs a slight buff to AT capabilities. But I know for damn sure a p4 cant take a t34 in front of one of the best AT guns in the game (the Zis).

@Ugbear, ok, breaking it down:

1. 80 MP and 20 Fuel. You can destroy Opel trucks, incidentally.
2. Again, price difference. And no ramming. And facing smaller units.
3. No idea about the T34/85s; never been in a position to use them.
T-34s have a particular en masse role on account of ramming. Again, used well it can take more or less any vehicle out of a fight.

Stugs don't have a proper turret, are 40 MP more expensive, and have much worse AI capability.

4. I don't really mind if it is. I like it more in its current role than as a heavily armoured flammenwerfer with no AT capability at all.

5. T3 gives you a cheap tank which forces your opponent to supplement his infantry forces with some hard AT and can do the M-8 thing of forcing off all the infantry wherever the German tanks aren't, and which can also take a German tank out of action or kill it in the right circumstances. T4's direct fire AI capabilities are just nowhere near. As with the comparisons with German tanks the thing is about what role you want your vehicles to play.

Not to say a small buff to AT or a small reduction in fuel cost (5 or so) might not be a good idea but the T-34's hardly useless right now.

T34 is better vs infantry:

160 dmg of the Panzer 4 doesnt helps vs infantry, because every infantry member has 80 hp (doesnt gets increased with vet). So dmg output thats above 80 is overkill vs infantry.

The T34 is better vs infantry because it has a higher rate of fire (shorter reload time) and a lower scatter then the Panzer 4 and does 80 dmg per hit which one shoots infantry any way. German sqauds also have less members so the T34 has a easier time to wipe sqauds.

160 dmg of the Panzer 4 doesnt helps vs infantry, because every infantry member has 80 hp

You'd be wrong to say that- the 160 damage takes a 0.4 or 0.5 modifier (I can't remember which) when calculating splash damage at maximum radius. This means the P4 should gib bunched-up squads more, which is consistent with my experience when facing/using it. The T-34 will kill the squad member(s) it hits directly, but splash damage is significantly less.

You'd be wrong to say that- the 160 damage takes a 0.4 or 0.5 modifier (I can't remember which) when calculating splash damage at maximum radius. This means the P4 should gib bunched-up squads more, which is consistent with my experience when facing/using it. The T-34 will kill the squad member(s) it hits directly, but splash damage is significantly less.

Ok, its x0.25 at maximum radius, I tougth they removed it because soviet mines for example do x1 in the whole AoE.

I'd say either buff their armor and leave their weapon the same, or buff their weapon and leave their armor the same. Not both.

A smart Soviet player trying to have an AT solution will go for the SU-85 which single-handedly negates Axis T3 problems except the Panther (which incidentally is an AT nade and ram magnet). Of course, the SU-85 is expensive and weak to shreks.

I think people want their T-34's to be PIV's, and this should not be the case. German armor should be better, but more expensive. Soviet armor should be cheap, versatile and aggressive. Its the general path other units in the soviet army take.

yes German Armour should be better and more expensive but the difference between the cost's of the t 34 and the P4 and the difference between there effectiveness do not match up, the t34 is only good as AI and useing ram(but only when you have another source of good AT, which you Dont get from t3) and the AI German tank I.E. the ostwind does it alot lot better than the t 34.

i think a big problem is the inability to tech both t3 and t4 for soviets, if i could get both an su 85 and a t 34 i would not mind how bad its AT was due to ram.

Should ram remain?? or should it be ditched for a much more effective tank, lower cost increased damage + penetration perhaps.