T-34/76 feels plain pathetic

Everytime I see them fighting, I'm actually Loling.

I think I can guess the winner tho

the only winner is us spectators but even that is up for debate.

the only winner is us spectators but even that is up for debate.

Since you havent even bought the game, Im belly laughing at this comment.

Stop trolling a personal argument that has already been settled back into the discussion. Thanks.

Since you havent even bought the game, Im belly laughing at this comment.

Stop trolling a personal argument that has already been settled back into the discussion. Thanks.

nullist... the irony of this post is amazing in fact its so amazing im just speechless... *timelapse* okay I know it has been a few hours but I think I might just have something. I mean you carried on an entire thread and possible more threads arguing with someone about god knows what. (but frankly it all that came down 2 was how big your respective E-PEENS are.) you could've carried it over to pm a long long time ago but you didn't you shoved your dirty laundry out for someone else to pickup. then there's the comment in the shoutbox... Show Spoiler

do i really need to say more, oh wait one more thing.

*snippet* *snippet* (was to much)

ps i will not reply anymore to responses of this if you want to respond to this nullist/others please do so in PM the admins have enough shit to deal with.

below this line discussion of T-34/76 balance.
___________________________________________________________________________

Guy HASNT EVEN BOUGHT THE GAME and trollingly necroes other peoples arguments that have been resolved, with intentiin to elicit and antagonise responses.

Nuff said.

T34: Excellent early infantry punch and AT pre-emption, regardless of how good T70 and Su85 are.
Ram is a fundamental economic win in all instances where it is supported.

2 T34s, or T34 + Support are adequate, at their cost, as PIV counter.
PIV is an AT/AI midtier specialist crucial to Ost progression and roster.
T34 is an AI +Support AT equipped with a situational AT hardcounter option.

If you want a PIV equivalent, play Ost and field one. T34 is not its equivalent, and intentionally so.

I wouldn't mind seeing the T34 armor increased a bit and its penetration increased a bit. Right now P4 counters it so hard it's not even funny. Once that is done probably move ram to vet1 ability, or figure something else out to prevent it from shutting down tigers/panthers so easily.

One thing that I think would be an interesting bit would be to make German tanks a bit slower. If P4 has superior gun and armor, the tradeoff besides a bit of cost should be some speed / maneuverability. The T34 is slightly faster right now, but I don't feel it's enough of a gap to count as a bonus in its favor.

T34 is not a PIV counter on its own, except with Ram. Nor should it be, because Ost has no light tank capable of taking on T34s.

I'm not saying it should be a counter to PanzerIV. If you want to draw CoH1 analogies it's the P4 vs Sherman or the M8 vs Puma. In most circumstances they can damage eachother and one will chase the other off (most likely P4 over Sherman and M8 over Puma, upgrade dependent) or kill it if they stick around.

The P4 simply massacres the T34 despite both being main medium battle tank roles. Making it more "soft counter" and being more positioning / other unit dependent would make the matchup more interesting.

Or allow for T34/85s to be built singularly, ie upgunned Sherman.

The Panzer IV was weighed to be a more cost effective anti-tank. In contrast, the T34 was weighed to be a more cost effective anti-infantry unit.

Imagine I give you a bucket, and I say you can put either big rocks or little rocks within that bucket. At the end of the day, you will have to decide how much of each rock type to put in that bucket. You can't put more rocks than the bucket holds.

Taking this analogy further, the size of the bucket is based on its cost. So not only does the T34 have a smaller bucket, it also has less of the big rocks and more of the little rocks. So if you try and use it for its big rocks, you aren't really going to get as much bang for your buck as you might have hoped for.

That said, its still possible that the unit needs a bit more tweaking to get that value assessment just right. For now, try taking advantage of its speed and higher efficiency vs. infantry. I'd also suggest getting the second building if you plan to use the third building, as you will be light on AT otherwise.

The Panzer IV was weighed to be a more cost effective anti-tank. In contrast, the T34 was weighed to be a more cost effective anti-infantry unit.

Imagine I give you a bucket, and I say you can put either big rocks or little rocks within that bucket. At the end of the day, you will have to decide how much of each rock type to put in that bucket. You can't put more rocks than the bucket holds.

Taking this analogy further, the size of the bucket is based on its cost. So not only does the T34 have a smaller bucket, it also has less of the big rocks and more of the little rocks. So if you try and use it for its big rocks, you aren't really going to get as much bang for your buck as you might have hoped for.

That said, its still possible that the unit needs a bit more tweaking to get that value assessment just right. For now, try taking advantage of its speed and higher efficiency vs. infantry. I'd also suggest getting the second building if you plan to use the third building, as you will be light on AT otherwise.

I feel what you are saying however the t70 does anti infantry just fine, if not better. And the way things are now t3 has next to no anti tank vehicles, so basicaly everyone is completely skipping t3 all together because they are getting raped by p4s and have no real defense if they build t3.

Thats the issue. Our only tank that can take out a p4 is the su85. The p4 takes out anything and everything.

As of right now the t34 and t70 do a lot of the same thing, and the t70 generally does it better for cheaper. The t34 was supposed to be the main battle tank but is now a shadow of its former self and really is useless at the moment.

Who needs to stop tanks with T-34s when you can use ATGs anyway. If they try to circle the ATG, ram probably would be best since their tank is overextended.

The Panzer IV was weighed to be a more cost effective anti-tank. In contrast, the T34 was weighed to be a more cost effective anti-infantry unit.

Imagine I give you a bucket, and I say you can put either big rocks or little rocks within that bucket. At the end of the day, you will have to decide how much of each rock type to put in that bucket. You can't put more rocks than the bucket holds.

Taking this analogy further, the size of the bucket is based on its cost. So not only does the T34 have a smaller bucket, it also has less of the big rocks and more of the little rocks. So if you try and use it for its big rocks, you aren't really going to get as much bang for your buck as you might have hoped for.

That said, its still possible that the unit needs a bit more tweaking to get that value assessment just right. For now, try taking advantage of its speed and higher efficiency vs. infantry. I'd also suggest getting the second building if you plan to use the third building, as you will be light on AT otherwise.

PZIV is good against everything that is NOT A SU-85, even a IS-2 won't be stand toe to toe to 2 PZIV, and the only difference between the so called "Bucket" is 40MP and 20 fuel, you buy a PZIV, the only thing you worried about is a SU-85, or a Hard counter ZIS

if you buy a T-34/76, the only thing you are not worry about is infantry without any AT capability, I don't think it's fair, it's not about L2P issue, I don't want to see a T-34 tank be a pathetic type95~98 japanese kamikazei tank, it's much worse than a Cromwell tank, and a cromwell tank is also slightly cheaper than a PZIV, but cromwell never feels such helpless, hopeless against a PZIV, even a handful of Cromwell can deal with a Panther with no problem, I don't remember Cromwell bounce off a Panther or a PZIV rear like T-34 do.........


they are pathetic......... tweak the Ram ability and give back what it should be please......let a Tank be a Tank!!!!!


(Like move the Ram to a vet 1 unlock, and rise the Pen of T-34/76 from 75(LOL???) to 100, T-34/85 from 110 to 145, they are still inferior to PZIV in-terms of armor and Chance of penetrating each out......... at least let em have a chance......

The past week or so I have been doing t2-t3 Russian builds consistantly. Whilst going t1/t2 to t4 does feel some what more reliable, there is nothing wrong at all in going t2-t3. As pqumsieh just highlighted do not go t1-t3 unless you have complete fuel dominance because you will lose everything to a well microed p4/ostwind due to no respectable AT.

If you play for the fuel as Russia, get out 2 T34's as your opponent has only a single P4 on the field you can actually take him head on with your tanks. The marked vehicle ability will win it outright for you. My general unit composition of this army consists of 1-2 engineers, 3 conscripts, 1 maxim, 1 guard, 1 Zi3 and 1-2 T34's when playing this stratergy. Despite initially losing a lot with this stratergy, testing it against good players, utilizing many commanders I have finally begun to win with it +50% of the time. I hope to write a guide on this approach of the game.

The way I see T34's currently in 1v1 games:

• Great anti-infantry tank. Can deal with some shrecks ambush.
  
• Deters heavy tank based play due to threat of ram on Elephant or Tiger.
  
• Ram only when an opponent overextends a tank to within my own territory and I can easily destroy it and repair my own tank back up. Do not ever ram if I can't save my own tank, unless I know I have the fuel advantage and can replace my tank whilst my opponent can't replace his loss.
  
• T34 at vet2 are one of the few Russian units that actually get a damage increase at vet2. Keep this in mind of the damage they bring to the table if you don't suicide them.
  

Do T34's deserve a buff. Yes, but only a small buff. I believe they only need a slight increase in the penetration damage or chance they do against opponents armour. Not much but just a bit to give a bit more of a soft counter and chase down very hurt p4's a bit better. At the moment I find with t2-t3 the greatest difficulty is getting the final killing blow on your opponents vehciles due slow ATG movement/fire rate you can often only get off 1-2 shots, so Guards or Conscript AT nade can finish of a enemy tank that is extremely hurt. A T34 should be given that chance a bit more aswell. It should not be the dedicated counter though, purely chips in like 10-15% damage to the p4, whilst combined arms from ATG, Guards and Conscripts do the work.

Aside from that the T34 unit is fine and balanced. Damage verse infantry is great, health, speed, rotation of vechile and turret and most importantly the cost. 280 MP and 95 Fuel is perfect. Having a high fuel price for T34's prevents the awful mass ram based tactics that made utilizing German armour in previous patchs impossible almost due to overwhelming T34 tank number superiority. If you ram and lose your T34's in doing without killing your opponents, you should be punished as it was a poor decision to ram.

The past week or so I have been doing t2-t3 Russian builds consistantly. Whilst going t1/t2 to t4 does feel some what more reliable, there is nothing wrong at all in going t2-t3. As pqumsieh just highlighted do not go t1-t3 unless you have complete fuel dominance because you will lose everything to a well microed p4/ostwind due to no respectable AT.

If you play for the fuel as Russia, get out 2 T34's as your opponent has only a single P4 on the field you can actually take him head on with your tanks. The marked vehicle ability will win it outright for you. My general unit composition of this army consists of 1-2 engineers, 3 conscripts, 1 maxim, 1 guard, 1 Zi3 and 1-2 T34's when playing this stratergy. Despite initially losing a lot with this stratergy, testing it against good players, utilizing many commanders I have finally begun to win with it +50% of the time. I hope to write a guide on this approach of the game.

The way I see T34's currently in 1v1 games:

• Great anti-infantry tank. Can deal with some shrecks ambush.
  
• Deters heavy tank based play due to threat of ram on Elephant or Tiger.
  
• Ram only when an opponent overextends a tank to within my own territory and I can easily destroy it and repair my own tank back up. Do not ever ram if I can't save my own tank, unless I know I have the fuel advantage and can replace my tank whilst my opponent can't replace his loss.
  
• T34 at vet2 are one of the few Russian units that actually get a damage increase at vet2. Keep this in mind of the damage they bring to the table if you don't suicide them.
  

Do T34's deserve a buff. Yes, but only a small buff. I believe they only need a slight increase in the penetration damage or chance they do against opponents armour. Not much but just a bit to give a bit more of a soft counter and chase down very hurt p4's a bit better. At the moment I find with t2-t3 the greatest difficulty is getting the final killing blow on your opponents vehciles due slow ATG movement/fire rate you can often only get off 1-2 shots, so Guards or Conscript AT nade can finish of a enemy tank that is extremely hurt. A T34 should be given that chance a bit more aswell. It should not be the dedicated counter though, purely chips in like 10-15% damage to the p4, whilst combined arms from ATG, Guards and Conscripts do the work.

Aside from that the T34 unit is fine and balanced. Damage verse infantry is great, health, speed, rotation of vechile and turret and most importantly the cost. 280 MP and 95 Fuel is perfect. Having a high fuel price for T34's prevents the awful mass ram based tactics that made utilizing German armour in previous patchs impossible almost due to overwhelming T34 tank number superiority. If you ram and lose your T34's in doing without killing your opponents, you should be punished as it was a poor decision to ram.

I agree mostly with you post but not fully. 95 fuel for what you are describing is essentially a bigger T70 with ram... it just does not seem to fit into t3 for me. the only reason to buy it is for ram? seem like bad design to me. Trying to balance a tank over one gimmicky ability will always lead to imbalance issues.

The fact that a Dev said you have to go t2 to make T3 viable seems like a bad joke to me, RTS games are suppose to promote new strategies being formulated NOT trying to force you into pre determined build orders.

I would like to see Ram changed to a vet 1 ability which only stuned each vehicle for 5 secounds and then boost it's damage vs vehicles or reduce it costs. i find it very strange people are arguing it is ok to pay 95 fuel for a battering ram...


This is just my opinion but i find anyone who thinks teh T-34 is fine in its current state a German fan boy and values there own interests over that of game balance.

I do not think the current T34 has anyplace in the game currently, the Ram ability is a one trick pony that is hurting balance, you get no cat and mouse gameplay, you can not use your tanks to flank enemy tanks because the only time you can kill P4s is with a ATG in support and they can not flank well..., there is no tense positioning moments, oh look p4, RAM bring up ATG. or oh look t34 pop smoke get too close for it to ram and kill it.

Ram makes the tank game Dull, boring and leaves no room for tactics.

what stephenjf said.
Stephen plays soviets the majority of the time. (just saying)

also despite the gimmick i think people will start to realize that ramming isn't always the best option and learn when to use it and when not to.

Why does Soviets need another anty-infantry tank from same pool ? there is T70 already and halftrack, with t34 you are buying it for stupid ram abbility not for countering infantry when there will be tanks in few mins on field Its should be opposite P iv - better vs infantry - t34 cheap but balanced cost/effectivnes vs tanks.

@Crells. He said he recommends going another building because you won't have AT. Makes sense right? You can go tier 4 if you want.

In CoH 1 if Americans went T1-T2 they would get slaughtered by a puma. Just the same as if Soviets go T1-T3 they have a hard time with the P4 (although it is still counterable using these tiers - 2xT34, T34 + T-70, Combination of units with call in troops).

Imagine I give you a bucket, and I say you can put either big rocks or little rocks within that bucket. At the end of the day, you will have to decide how much of each rock type to put in that bucket. You can't put more rocks than the bucket holds.

Taking this analogy further, the size of the bucket is based on its cost. So not only does the T34 have a smaller bucket, it also has less of the big rocks and more of the little rocks. So if you try and use it for its big rocks, you aren't really going to get as much bang for your buck as you might have hoped for.

Why is it that every relic developer on this website speaks in terrible metaphors like they are adressing five year olds?

The past week or so I have been doing t2-t3 Russian builds consistantly. Whilst going t1/t2 to t4 does feel some what more reliable, there is nothing wrong at all in going t2-t3. As pqumsieh just highlighted do not go t1-t3 unless you have complete fuel dominance because you will lose everything to a well microed p4/ostwind due to no respectable AT.

If you play for the fuel as Russia, get out 2 T34's as your opponent has only a single P4 on the field you can actually take him head on with your tanks. The marked vehicle ability will win it outright for you. My general unit composition of this army consists of 1-2 engineers, 3 conscripts, 1 maxim, 1 guard, 1 Zi3 and 1-2 T34's when playing this stratergy. Despite initially losing a lot with this stratergy, testing it against good players, utilizing many commanders I have finally begun to win with it +50% of the time. I hope to write a guide on this approach of the game.

The way I see T34's currently in 1v1 games:

• Great anti-infantry tank. Can deal with some shrecks ambush.
  
• Deters heavy tank based play due to threat of ram on Elephant or Tiger.
  
• Ram only when an opponent overextends a tank to within my own territory and I can easily destroy it and repair my own tank back up. Do not ever ram if I can't save my own tank, unless I know I have the fuel advantage and can replace my tank whilst my opponent can't replace his loss.
  
• T34 at vet2 are one of the few Russian units that actually get a damage increase at vet2. Keep this in mind of the damage they bring to the table if you don't suicide them.
  

Do T34's deserve a buff. Yes, but only a small buff. I believe they only need a slight increase in the penetration damage or chance they do against opponents armour. Not much but just a bit to give a bit more of a soft counter and chase down very hurt p4's a bit better. At the moment I find with t2-t3 the greatest difficulty is getting the final killing blow on your opponents vehciles due slow ATG movement/fire rate you can often only get off 1-2 shots, so Guards or Conscript AT nade can finish of a enemy tank that is extremely hurt. A T34 should be given that chance a bit more aswell. It should not be the dedicated counter though, purely chips in like 10-15% damage to the p4, whilst combined arms from ATG, Guards and Conscripts do the work.

Aside from that the T34 unit is fine and balanced. Damage verse infantry is great, health, speed, rotation of vechile and turret and most importantly the cost. 280 MP and 95 Fuel is perfect. Having a high fuel price for T34's prevents the awful mass ram based tactics that made utilizing German armour in previous patchs impossible almost due to overwhelming T34 tank number superiority. If you ram and lose your T34's in doing without killing your opponents, you should be punished as it was a poor decision to ram.

This, pretty much.

Point three here also applies in all cases where you can ram and expect to be able to destroy a more expensive german vehicle (Tiger, Panther, Elephant, Brummbar). In these cases it really doesnt matter much if you loose the T-34, as long as your fuel income is anywhere near the opponents.

I agree mostly with you post but not fully. 95 fuel for what you are describing is essentially a bigger T70 with ram... it just does not seem to fit into t3 for me. the only reason to buy it is for ram? seem like bad design to me. Trying to balance a tank over one gimmicky ability will always lead to imbalance issues.

The fact that a Dev said you have to go t2 to make T3 viable seems like a bad joke to me, RTS games are suppose to promote new strategies being formulated NOT trying to force you into pre determined build orders.

I would like to see Ram changed to a vet 1 ability which only stuned each vehicle for 5 secounds and then boost it's damage vs vehicles or reduce it costs. i find it very strange people are arguing it is ok to pay 95 fuel for a battering ram...


This is just my opinion but i find anyone who thinks teh T-34 is fine in its current state a German fan boy and values there own interests over that of game balance.

I do not think the current T34 has anyplace in the game currently, the Ram ability is a one trick pony that is hurting balance, you get no cat and mouse gameplay, you can not use your tanks to flank enemy tanks because the only time you can kill P4s is with a ATG in support and they can not flank well..., there is no tense positioning moments, oh look p4, RAM bring up ATG. or oh look t34 pop smoke get too close for it to ram and kill it.

Ram makes the tank game Dull, boring and leaves no room for tactics.

I personally think you're oversimplifying this. The viability of the T-70 as opposed to the T34 might be due to the former being a bit too strong at the moment and having an inherent self repair.

Even in the t70's current state I think the T34 has a place, it is more durable, it is effective in the ways described by Stephenn. In addition, ram is not a "no brainer derp button". There are plenty of tactics to employ. Rushing the T34 head on into well prepared positions will get it killed, distractions, flanking or finding exposed enemy tanks without support is the way to go. The germans in turn can use smoke, mines or panzerfausts to try and counter the ram (the ram is still ruined by a damaged engine right? Or was this changed?). Otherwise, preparing and supporting your tanks as the germans will help. Tactics!

Why is it that every relic developer on this website speaks in terrible metaphors like they are adressing five year olds?

I think it's pretty awesome that they post at all and give insights into what they were thinking with different concepts and units. I dont think the metaphors are meant to be insulting, that said, I invite you to read many of the responses and statements on the boards for inspiration as to why what you suggest might be true.

I think it's pretty awesome that they post at all and give insights into what they were thinking with different concepts and units. I dont think the metaphors are meant to be insulting, that said, I invite you to read many of the responses and statements on the boards for inspiration as to why what you suggest might be true.

We know what they are thinking, because it is in the actual game. We dont really want them to respond in this manor on these forums, because their comments are all very general and quite hollow. However, this is understandable given their responsibilities towards Relic. Instead, we want them to respond with patches.

I agree mostly with you post but not fully. 95 fuel for what you are describing is essentially a bigger T70 with ram... it just does not seem to fit into t3 for me. the only reason to buy it is for ram? seem like bad design to me. Trying to balance a tank over one gimmicky ability will always lead to imbalance issues.

The fact that a Dev said you have to go t2 to make T3 viable seems like a bad joke to me, RTS games are suppose to promote new strategies being formulated NOT trying to force you into pre determined build orders.

I would like to see Ram changed to a vet 1 ability which only stuned each vehicle for 5 secounds and then boost it's damage vs vehicles or reduce it costs. i find it very strange people are arguing it is ok to pay 95 fuel for a battering ram...


This is just my opinion but i find anyone who thinks teh T-34 is fine in its current state a German fan boy and values there own interests over that of game balance.

I do not think the current T34 has anyplace in the game currently, the Ram ability is a one trick pony that is hurting balance, you get no cat and mouse gameplay, you can not use your tanks to flank enemy tanks because the only time you can kill P4s is with a ATG in support and they can not flank well..., there is no tense positioning moments, oh look p4, RAM bring up ATG. or oh look t34 pop smoke get too close for it to ram and kill it.

Ram makes the tank game Dull, boring and leaves no room for tactics.

This, move the Ram to vet1 or tweak it, and make T-34 tank feel like a tank