Resources sink for OKW trucks

With the revamp of OKW their truck offer too much utility making them OP. Instead of nerfing them one could add a price in their utility making more balanced.

Suggested changes:

Command headquarters (T0) can now buy medic for price (100/20 maybe), has an upgrade that requires the 3 trucks that allows to call-in the KT. (OKW should have access to heal without having to built and upgrade a T1 truck)

Currently most OKW end up with all 3 trucks and KT, while KT should not imo be built in every game...The upgrade cost and speed can be used to better balance the KT arrival and tech cost.

SWS truck should have some of their speed and armor/HP back (since they now have cost).

Battlegroup HQ (T1) loses around 25-50 HP no longer comes with medics. The Retreat point upgrade now cost 300/30-50, increase HP to current levels, provides medics and retreat option.

This change reduces the effectiveness of aggressive placement of T1 making a bigger investment while allowing opponents to counter it easier before it is upgraded.

Mechanized regiment HQ (T2) loses around 25 HP no longer comes with engineers, vehicles are built 50% slower. Has an upgrade that cost around 100-200/10-20 that increase HP to current levels, provides engineers and increases vehicle production speed.

Schwerer Panzer HQ (T3)loses around 25-50 HP around 5-10 range and DPS no longer suppresses. Has an upgrade that cost around 100-200/20-50 that increase values to current ones.


These changes aim at reducing the effectiveness of OKW aggressive placement forcing OKW player to invest more resources if they want to use such a strategy.

On the other hand truck can still be used as normal buildings if such a strategy is not desired or if original trucks get destroyed.

The overwatch commander could have some bonus on the trucks (maybe cheaper upgrades) since he more aggressive placement oriented.

I don't want to see a german faction get side upgrades. That's what distinguishes germans from allies in this game.

Just bring back old resource income/resource conversion. OKW with full resources is full retard and instead of redesigning literally every piece of the factions economy to compensate for a radical change, just revert it and tweak it a bit.

I'm not a big fan of nerfing the actual stats of the buildings, adding additional costs to them makes them a larger investment and therefore a larger risk is likely enough to balance them. Making them easier to dislodge or preventing the Flak HQ from doing its job and we'll likely just see them build in the base sector again.

I don't want to see a german faction get side upgrades. That's what distinguishes germans from allies in this game.

Just bring back old resource income/resource conversion. OKW with full resources is full retard and instead of redesigning literally every piece of the factions economy to compensate for a radical change, just revert it and tweak it a bit.

Alexzander dude, ostheer use sidegrades... OKW is the only faction where everything is spoonfed and its fucking retarded and is a primary reason why the #MANPOWERFLOATISREAL

Alexzander dude, ostheer use sidegrades... OKW is the only faction where everything is spoonfed and its fucking retarded and is a primary reason why the #MANPOWERFLOATISREAL

Like what?


That's why OKW were balanced around having to spend ~400 mp for sturmpios and ISG etc. Not my fault everyone keeps getting shit made cheaper and bitching about giving them a 100% fuel/muni income.

Neither OKH or OKW spend fuel on anything other than tech and tanks. Coh2.org in general doesn't have unit sidegrades other than AT and sweepers (a poor but expedient decision). The only axis sidegrades I know of are schrecks.

I agree with Dullahan, Axis factions in CoH2 shouldn't be about spending time and resources to getting side upgrades, that's what Allies have been doing from the start and should be their own niche. This helps with the whole asymmetrical thing.

Personally I never thought the resource transfer and income penalty- and the way the HQ truck spawns- were a problem in the first place. It honestly makes them much more similar to Ostheer. If anything they made them a bit more of a challenge ad have a unique appeal to them, while also serving as characteristics to the faction in the form of not being as powerful as they'd otherwise be...to which they are now.

Alexzander dude, ostheer use sidegrades... OKW is the only faction where everything is spoonfed and its fucking retarded and is a primary reason why the #MANPOWERFLOATISREAL

I believe what he meant was unit upgrades that cost munitions, not researching unlocks that cost manpower and fuel.
Lack of needing to research that stuff meant the resources go towards units....but that only works if OKW didn't have the same income rate, which naturally explained their resource penalty.

The chances of reverting OKW is slim since they where problematic to begin with...

The are probably going to be nerfed hard and they should not be imo. Part of their current issues is the power SWS truck have. One can built them and use them to draw enemy fire from his units...

My proposal allows the versatility of using them as normal production buildings or using them as strong points with a price according to their performance.

What if instead of changing all of the popcap settings and fuel costs okw just got -50 basic manpower. Its a lot. That would mean okw at 50 pop are as much starved for manpower as any other faction at 100 pop. They would have to choose between infantry bolbs and building multiple vehicles, as we can see now one of the 2 is actually enough for okw to win.

It would also fit historical context becouse axis were not starved for vehicles in ardennes, they managed to gather as many tanks as they wanted. What they failed to do was to gather manpower, only half of planned number of soldiers were used in assoult due to shortages.

What is even more important such change would still let them benefit from multiple vetted squads but would hit them hard if they wanted to rebuild squads after wipes.

What if instead of changing all of the popcap settings and fuel costs okw just got -50 basic manpower. Its a lot. That would mean okw at 50 pop are as much starved for manpower as any other faction at 100 pop. They would have to choose between infantry bolbs and building multiple vehicles, as we can see now one of the 2 is actually enough for okw to win.

It would also fit historical context becouse axis were not starved for vehicles in ardennes, they managed to gather as many tanks as they wanted. What they failed to do was to gather manpower, only half of planned number of soldiers were used in assoult due to shortages.

What is even more important such change would still let them benefit from multiple vetted squads but would hit them hard if they wanted to rebuild squads after wipes.

I agree.

What if instead of changing all of the popcap settings and fuel costs okw just got -50 basic manpower. Its a lot. That would mean okw at 50 pop are as much starved for manpower as any other faction at 100 pop. They would have to choose between infantry bolbs and building multiple vehicles, as we can see now one of the 2 is actually enough for okw to win.

It would also fit historical context becouse axis were not starved for vehicles in ardennes, they managed to gather as many tanks as they wanted. What they failed to do was to gather manpower, only half of planned number of soldiers were used in assoult due to shortages.

What is even more important such change would still let them benefit from multiple vetted squads but would hit them hard if they wanted to rebuild squads after wipes.

I would rather see the faction being 100% resource income but to pay for Popcap, so everyone is happy. Axis doesn't pay for side upgrades, they pay to increase their popcap limit till 100.
Each truck allow to build a popcap upgrade with various prices in mp/fuel. Starting popcap, additional popcap and prices to be defined and balanced.

This would disable the volks spamfest and bring mp/fuel sink between tiers.

I would rather see the faction being 100% resource income but to pay for Popcap, so everyone is happy. Axis doesn't pay for side upgrades, they pay to increase their popcap limit till 100.
Each truck allow to build a popcap upgrade with various prices in mp/fuel. Starting popcap, additional popcap and prices to be defined and balanced.

This would disable the volks spamfest and bring mp/fuel sink between tiers.

Yeah, popcap manipulation upgrades are the feature coh2 lack the most from coh1. Supply yard gave vcoh usf so much more depth, that could be cool if it was done in a ballanced way ofc. What I proposed is simplier to implement and ballance, as a hotfix for example, what you propose could be cool solution in longer run.

Add two upgrades at the base HQ.

"Requisition additional weapons"
"Requisition grenades"

Each 125mp 10 fuel. The former Unlocks 75 munition Shrek for Volks (price decrease) and 75 munition LMG for Obers (price increase). The latter unlocks flame grenades and Ober bundle grenades.

The research requires at least one truck to be placed before it can be unlocked.


Add CP requirement to King Tiger.


These should be enough to reign in OKW, but if they're still overperforming you could also consider gating the truck abilities behind upgrades as OP suggests. Perhaps 125/10 for them too.

Add two upgrades at the base HQ.

"Requisition additional weapons"
"Requisition grenades"

Each 125mp 10 fuel. The former Unlocks 75 munition Shrek for Volks (price decrease) and 75 munition LMG for Obers (price increase). The latter unlocks flame grenades and Ober bundle grenades.

The research requires at least one truck to be placed before it can be unlocked.

This changes nothing. It is just one less volk squad on the field to make both upgrades.

This changes nothing. It is just one less volk squad on the field to make both upgrades.

I edited / added a bit.

The point would be to delay teching slightly with the fuel costs. That plus popcap fixes is probably enough for now, but we can also talk about more radical things after small changes. We should try not to change 10 things at once.

The question should be:
is aggressive truck placement and truck utility something OKW need now that they have full resources or not?

In my opinion they don't need it, even more now that kubel can be used for capping...

I agree with Dullahan, Axis factions in CoH2 shouldn't be about spending time and resources to getting side upgrades, that's what Allies have been doing from the start and should be their own niche. This helps with the whole asymmetrical thing.

Personally I never thought the resource transfer and income penalty- and the way the HQ truck spawns- were a problem in the first place. It honestly makes them much more similar to Ostheer. If anything they made them a bit more of a challenge ad have a unique appeal to them, while also serving as characteristics to the faction in the form of not being as powerful as they'd otherwise be...to which they are now.

I believe what he meant was unit upgrades that cost munitions, not researching unlocks that cost manpower and fuel.
Lack of needing to research that stuff meant the resources go towards units....but that only works if OKW didn't have the same income rate, which naturally explained their resource

penalty.

If he's counting battlephases, I'm deliberately not counting those. That's part of normal tech.

I am only counting fuel sinks for upgrades.

What if instead of changing all of the popcap settings and fuel costs okw just got -50 basic manpower. Its a lot. That would mean okw at 50 pop are as much starved for manpower as any other faction at 100 pop. They would have to choose between infantry bolbs and building multiple vehicles, as we can see now one of the 2 is actually enough for okw to win.

It would also fit historical context becouse axis were not starved for vehicles in ardennes, they managed to gather as many tanks as they wanted. What they failed to do was to gather manpower, only half of planned number of soldiers were used in assoult due to shortages.

What is even more important such change would still let them benefit from multiple vetted squads but would hit them hard if they wanted to rebuild squads after wipes.

Messing with manpower income is dangerous, in terms of game balance. Manpower decides games.

I'd rather they just paid a lot more for their units. 300mp for volks, 400mp sturms.

(Or revert the patch and make OKW cool again.)

The manpower issue at the moment comes from the pop cap issues as Allied and Wehrmacht units take alot more pop cap than their OKW counterparts such as 5 pop Volks while Riflemen take 7 pop and infantry sections and grenadiers take 8 pop which is same as obersoldaten whom take 8 pop and if you play Company of Heroes you can understand how this affects manpower income so Im not gonna go through explaining

Next patch when they do fix the pop I hope Volks would take 7 instead of 6 personally as they perform better with their DPS buff and this would also reduce the manpower income slight

Also the side tech would be more like side upgrades I assume cause the retreat point is a side upgrade if you lose the battlegruppe headquarters and build another one you would have to buy the retreat point again so giving OKW side upgrades wouldnt make the OKW like the Allies and still keep them unique

Grenades research, medics research, weapons-rack research etc. on the other hand would be side-tech as theyre permanant and last for the rest of the match