Another opinion thread

EDIT: realized after post this should probably be in balance forum, not gameplay. apologies

since we all seem to be making lists recently, i figured i should have one too MVGame

anyways, I love this game. i think the single player and ToW is freaking awesome! I like the units, blizzards, and most of the maps.

however, there are a few glaring problems that pop up in both singleplayer and multiplayer.

1 -Weapon Team Sizes. 6 man mg and 6 man AT guns are NOT ok. all german and russian mgs and AT guns need to be 4 man teams. and mortars should remain 3 for german, 4 for russian.

1a -zis RAGE. this thing pisses me off almost every game. not only is it a 6 man squad, meaning it takes forever to kill, but it can arty you as well. i know it cost munitions but it makes it so effective it's stupid. i've had one arty shot from this kill 2 whole squads. i've sat right next to it with 2 whole pgren squads shooting at it and it still managed to kill my bunker, my stug, and half of one of my pgren squads before it died.

1b -pak RAGE. ABSOLUTELY USELESS! t-34's two shot this 360 manpower unit designed to kill tanks. does decent damage but it's so hard to keep alive, it's just not worth it ever. this capitalizes in ToW. where in 1941, you have no good AT other than the pak, so when russian t-34's hit the field: you are doomed. not much better in standard multiplayer but at least i might have a p4 supporting it (or really the pak supporting the p4)

2 -Faust range needs to go back to original. its the germans' only early form of AT and now is dodge-able by every vehicle in the game. you have to be seriously bad to be hit by a faust right now. this also leads to my 3rd complaint.

3 -units transitioning with tech levels is really off for germans.

as a russian player, conscripts gain new abilities through doctrines, have AT nades, molotovs, can merge, etc. to make it useful at early, mid, and late game. you always want conscripts on the field.

grens, on the other hand, lose all usefulness late game starting once t3 hits the field. this 4 man team cant last long against any tank (not expecting grens to kill tank, but not get 3 shot by it either). the faust range makes them really bad at supporting german armor as well. german-wise, you have to replace all ur grens with pgrens at t3 in order to be effective (some pgrens with shrecks, most without). obviously cost-wise this makes no sense.

the russian army works really well together, and only a few units are separate units meant to be very role specific (ex: zis is AT but also arty good against inf). while the german army has very few units that can work with each other as well as the russian units do.

4 (LAST ONE)-Munitions costs are crazy unbalanced. as a russian player, i need fuel and that's it. i am never low on munitions. EVER. manpower depends on whether i'm playing well or not. as a german player, i float roughly 150-300 mp (pretty standard imo, i use most of it as much as possible) but never have any munitions or fuel unless i have slaughtered my opponent and have 80% of the map. nothing on the german side costs less than 60 ammo other than the two gren abilities, and all the upgrades and ammo costs are often necessary to stop the russian advance. while alot of the russian abilties are no required to win the battle, and they have to use them so sparingly in comparison that they often float munitions for decent periods of time giving them plenty of supply for when ammo uses are needed.

thanks for reading! still love this game and continue to play posting so that hopefully we can get some changes to make the game even better

1 -Weapon Team Sizes. 6 man mg and 6 man AT guns are NOT ok. all german and russian mgs and AT guns need to be 4 man teams. and mortars should remain 3 for german, 4 for russian.

I think this is potentially a L2P issue. Relic probably wants Wehrmacht to advance more carefully and one-dimensional: You have to keep your units close together and pierce into the enemy realm. Conversely, Soviet is more of an "all over the map" zerg-style play. However, there are two major problems with this scenario. The soviet is incredibly (too) efficient at dealing with clumped units and - worse - with how soon soviets can pull out tanks and turn the game into an irreversable stompfest, you can't really justify slow and careful advances (while the rest of the map is already being countercapped). Ostheer works better if the map is small and MGs and other stuff can cover a good share of the map.

At least that is what I am experiencing. I also saw this strategy in the launch cast, where the relic devs pretty much just spearheaded into the middle and fortificated it. Since the map was so small, it was very easy to fall left or right while also being supported by cover fire.

I think this is potentially a L2P issue. Relic probably wants Wehrmacht to advance more carefully and one-dimensional: You have to keep your units close together and pierce into the enemy realm. Conversely, Soviet is more of an "all over the map" zerg-style play. However, there are two major problems with this scenario. The soviet is incredibly (too) efficient at dealing with clumped units and - worse - with how soon soviets can pull out tanks and turn the game into an irreversable stompfest, you can't really justify slow and careful advances (while the rest of the map is already being countercapped). Ostheer works better if the map is small and MGs and other stuff can cover a good share of the map. At least that is what I am experiencing.

i actually agree with this. russians ARE designed to be zerg style while germans take a point, hold, move up, hold, move up, hold, etc.

the things i've posted here are what i think stops the germans from being able to do this correctly and gives the russians so many ways to stop the play that germans are designed for.

i agree with alot of your points WM but not all, the scout car is a viable AT weapon though it can be killed easily, if the faust's range gets increased so should the AT nade.

I liked the idea of having all weapon teams become 4 man. but i also think at guns in general should do more damage / more accurate or be reduced in cost.

The soviet army does work well together but a major problem is teching. not in any 1v1's have i ever gotten all my buildings out they are simply too expensive. first builing is free but then in order to get t2 t3 and t4 you need 230 fuel, +25 for each cons upgrade resulting in a massive 280 fuel to be able to produce a combined arms army and germans need what 150 ish fuel to get every building and tech done? almost half,
this is leading to tier skips for almost all soviets, you can field support weapons but no snipers or m3's. you can get t34's but no tank destroyers.

The munis cost needs to be redone, perhaps lower the cost of upgrades to 10 to 20 munis (lmg doe example) but make it need an upgrade with fuel / MP first like the soviets.

As a mostly German player (currently swapping to Russians to get games faster, tbh )
1. Not found too bad except for MGs in buildings.
b/c. PAK is definitely not survivable enough, and the Germans don't have a good recrewing choice (also, costs more manpower than a tank, so you really have to be in a terrible position for it to be the best choice). I'd really like some sort of 5/6-man pio upgrade to give them a decent role as recrewers (Ostruppen require a *really* situational ability to get, and I like other doctrines a bit more). ZiS - 60 munis per barrage, not enormously accurate, reasonably quickly decrewed by p-grens.
2. Don't mind this. Scout Cars probably need some sort of a nerf, though. Also, cf. AT nades which are a fuel-costing upgrade...
3. The LMG-42 helps a lot in terms of giving them killing power, a faust can really deal with some Russian light armour. Not sure they're useless.
4. Russians need a bit more to be made to blow munitions on, definitely.

I agree I think the munitions need to be redone the Germans need too much of it and you can never get anything out because you have lost the map in minutes to the Russians. Im constantly scraping for ammo as the germans. The weapons crews and snipers are too easily killed as well compared to the soviets

I agree with the main thrust of your points.

Basically, Sov OP.

First balance patch will make/break this game for early purchaser community.

Ad4 U know why ? becouse german inf is stronger then russian - ofc all of u will now start trash talk soviets op blablabla -its not truth - greens can kill early russian trucks - as a russian u need those doctrinal inf - as a german u may deal with early russian tanks with PG > and they counte those doctrinal russian inf - as a russian u need a tank or at ofc but at is bad against inf > get the point.

And after all there is that jagger inf doctrine which ppl think is bad - but its not - ofc if u r not a spamer of your upg.

wat

wat

+1

Ad4 U know why ? becouse german inf is stronger then russian - ofc all of u will now start trash talk soviets op blablabla -its not truth - greens can kill early russian trucks - as a russian u need those doctrinal inf - as a german u may deal with early russian tanks with PG > and they counte those doctrinal russian inf - as a russian u need a tank or at ofc but at is bad against inf > get the point.

And after all there is that jagger inf doctrine which ppl think is bad - but its not - ofc if u r not a spamer of your upg.

i tried using google translate and it said language unknown.

i'm not saying soviets are OP OMG NERF! i'm saying there germans are underpowered and need tweaks so that they are equally effective. the only two things i want nerfed are weapon team sizes for russians and (after some more games and thought) t-70 damage.

my reasoning for the t-70 nerf is that it is shooting at 3-4 man squads, well right now almost every volley will kill a model. so 4 volleys = dead squad. pak useless for counter, shrecks cost 120 ammo which i dont have, and AC upgunned will only work if the t-70 is by itself and you have grens supporting ur AC with faust (70 ammo for upgrade, 35 for faust = 105 ammo for one unit, maybe two if you have m3 battles earlier)

I agree with the main thrust of your points.

Basically, Sov OP.

First balance patch will make/break this game for early purchaser community.

This. It's like someone sweated blood figuring out how the Soviet faction would work, like a labour of love, and gave the Ostheer to the work experience guy to create.