[December] Volks and Obers are Overpriced

I don't agree with giving Volks outdated AT Rifles or making Obers generic Infantry.

If Schrecks really proof to be a problem now, I would prefer some kind of Super-Panzerfaust for Volks. The Panzerfaust 200 could deal some good damage and have a bit more range than that of the Grens. Would also fit way better to the late war Volksgren theme of OKW. Spamming it would of course be costly as the ammunition cost would apply per shot.

But lets wait until the patch is here.

I'm just curious about how OP managed to get over OKW's basic infantry battle vs allies in this current patch if OP thinks that volks in the upcoming patch still sucks vs cons...

Or OP just did not get over that problem maybe? LOL.

2 obers with lmg both vet 3 (20 popcap) get destroyed by 3 vet 3 rifles(21 popcap)
obers are dedicted ai infantry and rifles are all purpose
so yeah obers are definitely underpeforming


my suggestion just revert the second round of hard nerf that obers since wfa lauch
the second round of nerf casue lmg and stg damage from 8 to 6...just revert that

at that time may felt the nerf was unnecessary,but still it was largely due to standard allied infantry not performing good and other issues which are no longer a case now..so this nerf was even more unjustified

the base ober is worth like ~320mp, but the lmg34 is easily worth 90 munition at the least.

The current arrangement basically shove part of the lmg34 cost onto the base unit itself. At least they only cost 40 mp to reinforce.

Volks no longer get easily overrun in the early game and Obers were always good with LMG upgrade (as pointed out 100% Munitions makes this even more relevant). Cons definitely don't "always" beat Volks in balance preview unless they are in a very advantageous position.

In my experience people who complain about Obers efficiency are using them incorrectly: Charging out over open ground or firing LMG on the move instead of standing still. LMG34 Obers in cover can handle pretty much anything except maybe Double LMG Paratroopers/Vet Rifles. With Vet Obers are more or less unstoppable I've won a few marathon 1v1 games just by slowly Vetting Obers and wearing down the opposing player.

Side note what is PzB?

Volksgrenadiers received 20% dps buff with only 5% cost increase, what exactly is wrong here?

the problem with obers is not getting them lmg or on field..the problem is the actual unit is ot performing on level for the purpose it brought and the role it has(dedicated eilte ai)...make lmg and stg 100 muni but buff their dmg.

Side note what is PzB?

Volksgrenadiers received 20% dps buff with only 5% cost increase, what exactly is wrong here?

Nothing

Side note what is PzB?

Panzer Battlegroup.

Though I might be wrong, hopeful someone will correct me.

Panzer Battlegroup.

Though I might be wrong, hopeful someone will correct me.

Nah, I think he's talking about a Panzerbüchse 39 (PzB 39).

2 obers with lmg both vet 3 (20 popcap) get destroyed by 3 vet 3 rifles(21 popcap)
obers are dedicted ai infantry and rifles are all purpose
so yeah obers are definitely underpeforming

Obviously you are talking about Rifles with upgrades, which assuming they are not zooks, because then they will lose DPS vs. Infantry, you are talking about minimum (60*2)*3=360 munitions cost you did not consider (if lmg's then its actually 420 munitions), and the difference in MP, 400*2 vs. 270*3. So rifles, with more popcap, higher initial costs for loadouts, and higher opportunity costs can beat them.

Maybe, Obers are supposed to supplement armies instead of replacing frontline infantry?

Obers are "underperforming" because they are expensive and still need an upgrade to do what they should do. Compare them to PGrenz if you will, those come out with very good AI capabilities and only need their upgrade if the player wants another option. An upgrade should be just that and allow for different playstyles. Obers are like tanks that you need an upgrade for to unlock the barrel because otherwise you would only have the Hull MG.

OKW with leIG, doctrinal MG, rushable Luchs, rushable FlakHT, good allround P4, Ostwin call-in, doctrinal PzFuseliers etc. (and now slightly buffed Volks) should already have enough anti infantry capabilities. This creates the problem of Obers being entirely unnecessary. Everyone can relate to getting a PGren squad as Ostheer, it's useful from the getgo and has an awesome upgrade. Obers need the upgrade to begin doing what they are meant to do and struggle in the face of all the general alternative AI OKW can have.

They don't actually suck, but they are not needed at all, so noone is willing to spend so much MP on them. One suggestion I am very fond of is to replace the Obers with a sniper. OKW doesn't have it from the getgo this way and it certainly is less complicated to utilize than Obers, while providing a dedicated anti infantry solution everyone can be happy with. Just copy the UKF sniper, without the penetration, noone needs another Ost Sniper *shudder*.

Replace Obers with a sniper, noone will miss them. Or make them come with StG44 from the getgo, or noone will use them. I certainly won't.

Obers are lategame units that don't have AT.

They aren't shock assault type units, so they're not that effective at flanking or clearing crew weapons. Sturmpioneers are better at flanking an ATG and clearing it than Obers. And Sturms are probably a closer equivalent to PanzerGrens than Obers.

While Obers can kinda tank and kill these units from range, they're still expensive and need other infantry to screen them. Even so, you have to hope your opponent doesn't just focus fire your MP away. It's not like they have super human regen like Knights Cross Holders had to try and mitigate the massive MP costs.

I've always thought that Obers should have shreks and Volks should have fausts. For a resource starved faction, being forced to spend munis on fausts before that reliable shrek comes out makes sense, especially now that they don't have income penalties. It gives Allies a choice (not that they're lacking with Brits now, but still) on how to pressure Axis.

You are NOT supposed to keep them stock at all.

Their basic rifles aren't even bad at all, actually. A weapon upgrade is still better but leaving them vanilla and making use of their other muni abilities is actually fairly viable.

The biggest problem with Obers is their reinforcement time is ridiculous long.

Obers remained the same , volks were buffed.
Both are fine , nothing more to write here.

Since we are here and I find making new topic irrelevant, could someone tell me when to buy lmg and when to buy stg44 (from specops doc) when it comes to upgrading Obers?

Since we are here and I find making new topic irrelevant, could someone tell me when to buy lmg and when to buy stg44 (from specops doc) when it comes to upgrading Obers?

Get 2 obers and one of each upgrades.