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Weapon racks for Germans or remove them completely?

3 Dec 2015, 19:51 PM
#41
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Dec 2015, 11:11 AMGiaA
Ohhhhhhh god why do you guys want relic to take EVERY SINGLE UNIQUE ASPECT of the different factions out of the game ? :( :( :( :( :(


+1000000000000000000000000000000000 ( Decillion :P ) Thats what I'm trying to say from my first post on this site
3 Dec 2015, 20:09 PM
#42
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384



Less diversity - more balance.
More diversity - less balance.


This is a common logical fallacy. Making everything a mirror is EASIER to balance, but a more diverse game isn't inherently less balanced. The more diversity you have, the more variables you have, but that doesn't mean it's imbalanced. You can have a very diverse game and have it be very well balanced: See Dawn of War 2 Elite mod. 7 factions, 20 heroes (which come with 9-12 wargear upgrades each + 2-3 global abilities.) and it's extremely well balanced.

3 Dec 2015, 20:16 PM
#43
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



This is a common logical fallacy. Making everything a mirror is EASIER to balance, but a more diverse game isn't inherently less balanced. The more diversity you have, the more variables you have, but that doesn't mean it's imbalanced. You can have a very diverse game and have it be very well balanced: See Dawn of War 2 Elite mod. 7 factions, 20 heroes (which come with 9-12 wargear upgrades each + 2-3 global abilities.) and it's extremely well balanced.



And what about CoH2? 2 years, still so many balance issues.
3 Dec 2015, 20:32 PM
#44
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



And what about CoH2? 2 years, still so many balance issues.

With introducing super powerful one shotting units and drasting army revamps after trying new things for the sake of having new things? No wonder.

But I'll start getting concerned when balance patches will stop coming out.

After all SC2 gets balance changes for 5 years now, I'm not sure but I believe last SC1 balance patch was released like 9 years after initial release?

Also, warcraft3 was quite varied game that was pretty well balanced.
3 Dec 2015, 20:40 PM
#45
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2


With introducing super powerful one shotting units and drasting army revamps after trying new things for the sake of having new things? No wonder.

But I'll start getting concerned when balance patches will stop coming out.

After all SC2 gets balance changes for 5 years now, I'm not sure but I believe last SC1 balance patch was released like 9 years after initial release?

Also, warcraft3 was quite varied game that was pretty well balanced.


And that's the point. WIth such design, you release unbalanced game and you are trying to balance it through years and that's not acceptable.

With more mirror design, you release game which is already balanced for about 90% and needs only small tweaks.
3 Dec 2015, 20:41 PM
#46
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384



And what about CoH2? 2 years, still so many balance issues.


Honestly? CoH2 is pretty well balanced. If you've ever played a really imbalanced game before (Most EALA RTS games at some point) or even some of Relic's older games (DoW2 prior to TIOW patch, CoH1, Dark Crusade/Soulstorm etc) the balance issues here are really, really minor and don't really effect game outcome.

I remember in Red Alert 3 for a long time all allies had to do to beat Empire was build a cyrocopter, an interceptor and a vindicator or two and there was absolutely nothing that empire could do to beat it. (other than suicidially rush the allied base with proxy barracks, which didn't work against better players) They would freeze your units/buildings and instantly kill them with one vindicator rocket. If you tried to use Tengue to transform into a plane unit, they lost 2-1 to the interceptor and he could safely pump those out faster than you could get tengu to counter him. Literally every game you played with these two factions in it played out like this.

I remember in BFME2 that rohirrim with theoden could charge down an army of upgraded pikemen (their supposed hard counter) and literally trample them to death. (Keep in mind, trampling pikeman would be the equivalent to infantry running through an s mine field) Even with Dwarven pikeman (most hitpoints, best armour) you couldn't kill them, and rohirrim trampling units other than pikeman killed them outright. (They were also the best cavalry unit, so they won any fights between the two especially with theoden which had massive AoE buffs.)

I remember vanilla Tyranids being able to attack move and kill anything that came near while their disposable capping squad capped the whole map simply by building warrior broods and a hive tyrant with venom cannon.

Nothing in Coh2's history even approaches these sorts of massive balance issues that other games in the genre have had. It's Relic's most balanced game by far at this point in its life.
3 Dec 2015, 20:47 PM
#47
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Nothing in Coh2's history even approaches these sorts of massive balance issues that other games in the genre have had. It's Relic's most balanced game by far at this point in its life.

I'm not saying we are not in mostly a fine state but you can't just ignore what we have endure.

-FHT meta or how hitting vet2 suddenly double HP
-ISU vs Elephant meta
-First week of Osstruppen and AssGrens
-TA, Windustry and other attrocities.
-Clowncar sniper
-T70 with crush
-Double damage Katyushas

And many more.
3 Dec 2015, 20:59 PM
#48
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384


I'm not saying we are not in mostly a fine state but you can't just ignore what we have endure.

-FHT meta or how hitting vet2 suddenly double HP
-ISU vs Elephant meta
-First week of Osstruppen and AssGrens
-TA, Windustry and other attrocities.
-Clowncar sniper
-T70 with crush
-Double damage Katyushas

And many more.


Minor balance problems that mostly worked because they were fresh and new and people didn't know how to deal with them yet? (RIP clowncar sniper, you will be missed.)
3 Dec 2015, 21:09 PM
#49
avatar of varunax

Posts: 210

I wanna see a sniper or officer with a LMG. Rambooooo.
4 Dec 2015, 03:24 AM
#50
avatar of Junaid

Posts: 509

Hmm...I think they should've started with with mirror design, and afterwards tweaked to make them assymmetric.
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