Brits vs Luchs rush is hopeless if the map doesn't favor predictable avenues of approach for mining, since luchs can counter 6 pounder by simply taking a shot. It is the same problem with OKW vs USF where without an mg34, you will eventually lose because you can't crowd control. This especially holds true vs that combined arms ability in the Cavalry doctrine, where you can get gigantic performance boosts when blobbing.
Brits will be useless vs OKW this patch, vs Ostheer they will have a hard time, but can do fine (apart from osttruppen cancer). OKW vs USF is a dogdy call, OKW vs Soviets is going to be laughable.
Shouldn't UKF have AT snare?
30 Nov 2015, 15:10 PM
#41
Posts: 830
30 Nov 2015, 15:23 PM
#42
Posts: 677
You're 100% correct here.
It is very promising that acknowledge that.
I don't think you know how scatter works...
Right clicking to attack or attack ground is irrelevant, there'll be exactly the same scatter values and exactly the same RNG.
No it is not that why people using brumbar or Dozer you attack ground instead of auto fire...
You can actually test it yourself with piats and you will how accurate they are when you use attack ground.
222 can react to sniper really fast, if you have infantry tracking vet1, you can just YOLO rush the sniper as you'll be aware of its position and potential AT position.
If one is afraid of losing his sniper to 222 all he need to do is support him and make a trench, a 222 dies to small arms fire...
30 Nov 2015, 15:30 PM
#43
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
No it is not that why people using brumbar or Dozer you attack ground instead of auto fire...
You can actually test it yourself with piats and you will how accurate they are when you use attack ground.
People use attack ground on these, because they don't want these vehicles to attack models on the sides, therefore moving scatter pattern outside of effective range, it makes sense to do it when attacking infantry squads, the bigger the squad, the more logical it is, versus static structures and vehicles its irrelevant, because scatter pattern is already centered on the target, it does nothing for PIATs attacking immobile targets.
I'm now going to use my awesome art skills to picture it:
To the left, ballistic unit attacking model on the side.
To the right, ballistic unit ground attacking middle of the squad.
Range same, same scatter, but this pretty much pictures why its always better to ground attack vs infantry with explosive weapons, because it increases probability of hit and why it makes no sense to attack ground for singular entity units.
If one is afraid of losing his sniper to 222 all he need to do is support him and make a trench, a 222 dies to small arms fire...
You're overestimating tommies here, 222 goes down fast to cons and rifles who shoot often, not so much vs tommies who are just 4 man squads and god forbid out of cover.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Nov 2015, 15:35 PM
#44
Posts: 677
People use attack ground on these, because they don't want these vehicles to attack models on the sides, therefore moving scatter pattern outside of effective range, it makes sense to do it when attacking infantry squads, the bigger the squad, the more logical it is, versus static structures and vehicles its irrelevant, because scatter pattern is already centered on the target, it does nothing for PIATs attacking immobile targets.
No they do not, built a brumbar and have it attack ground you will see that scatter is minimal.
PLS test this before posting...
30 Nov 2015, 15:38 PM
#45
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
No they do not, built a brumbar and have it attack ground you will see that scatter is minimal.
PLS test this before posting...
Updated my previous post, just for you to actually understand how scatter works.
Scatter doesn't change depending on attack method, but exclusively range.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Nov 2015, 15:42 PM
#46
Posts: 677
Updated my previous post, just for you to actually understand how scatter works.
Scatter doesn't change depending on attack method, but exclusively range.
For the last time TEST and see...
30 Nov 2015, 15:45 PM
#47
Posts: 253
Light veichle rush?
so like the allied meta for the entire 2015 year?
Learn to AEC.
so like the allied meta for the entire 2015 year?
Learn to AEC.
30 Nov 2015, 15:47 PM
#48
Posts: 513
Light veichle rush?
so like the allied meta for the entire 2015 year?
Learn to AEC.
Yeah its like facing t70's but with no gren faust, no TWP, no laser guided shrecks and a 75 fuel 222. Literally cannot wait to play Axis this patch and shit on all UKF players lel gg balance entertainment
30 Nov 2015, 15:55 PM
#49
Posts: 253
Yeah its like facing t70's but with no gren faust, no TWP, no laser guided shrecks and a 75 fuel 222. Literally cannot wait to play Axis this patch and shit on all UKF players lel gg balance entertainment
I dont understand why eveyone treats AEC like crap. I guess most brit players just always spam inf sections and squad sizes then go directly into tanks.
Thats not going to work anymore.
AEC counters every Axis light vehicle, you NEED to buy it vs OKW to not get LUCHed and VS OST to not get FHTed
OST still only has PAK and panzershreck Panzergrens to deal with Stuart, Brits get a mobile light vehicle AT option.
30 Nov 2015, 15:56 PM
#50
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
For the last time TEST and see...
I'm trying to explain science to potato...
Testing it will give the exact result I've explained to you, you're simply immune to it and somehow expect different behavior then hard coded rule.
I'll just assume you have no idea what scatter is and how it works and leave you at this.
Yes, brummbar have low scatter, but IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE WAY IT WORKS AT ALL, it still works exactly like I've explained, just not with the triangle, but rhombus pattern which gets bigger or smaller depending on distance. People attack ground to put as much targets inside this rhombus for biggest hit chance.
You are not arguing me here, you are arguing game mechanic that is extremely clear and easy to get.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Nov 2015, 16:30 PM
#51
Posts: 677
I'm trying to explain science to potato...
I'll just assume you have no idea what scatter is and how it works and leave you at this.
Stop insults pls because you will look very stupid once you realize you are wrong.
Yes, brummbar have low scatter,
Actually Brumbar has allot of scatter especial angle
..., it makes sense to do it when attacking infantry squads, ...., versus static structures and vehicles its irrelevant, because scatter pattern is already centered on the target, it does nothing for PIATs attacking immobile targets.
You are wrong, against vehicles attack ground works fine if it is fire behind them due to collision.
Updated my previous post, just for you to actually understand how scatter works.
Scatter doesn't change depending on attack method, but exclusively range.
Wrong again, the same vehicle with the same gun can have different scatter value depending on type of attack...
Further more the scatter as number remains the same with range you simply multiply scatter with distance to find how far away the projectile will land from intended target.
People attack ground to put as much targets inside this rhombus for biggest hit chance.
You are not arguing me here, you are arguing game mechanic that is extremely clear and easy to get.
The scatter area is not a rhombus it ii closer to trapezoid (although 2 long side are parts of circles) and you have actually draw a triangle.
And here is one of quote from official forums demonstrating how good you understand scatter...
http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/coh-2-balance-feedback/232627-soviet-all-t-34-accuracy
'Compared to a P4 on Coh2stats.com I don't see what it is that makes the T34 so damn bad. I know it's there, I feel it and I see it but I cant seem to track down the number that controls it. There's a very small amount of scatter difference but that's it.
There is the ever present issue of the RNG just saying "no" to you but I feel like there has to be something going on.'
Comment Katitof :
Scatter and reload translate to huge differences. For example 50% lower scatter translates to 400% higher accuracy.
Armor of the tanks, penetration at far and AT capabilities of factions also impact it.
30 Nov 2015, 19:37 PM
#52
Posts: 987
what if UKF's AT gun gets flanked at some stage, early? does that mean a half health luchs or Ost flame ht should be able to destroy UKF's whole army, because they don't have access to snare unlike all other armies that such a thing can not happen to theirs?!!!
that's one of my points!
Firstly, what AchtAchter said was not disagreeing with you. He was pointing out holes in my argument which WAS disagreeing with you.
Secondly, OKW has no non-doctrinal snare either. Why aren't you calling for them to get one too? If you want balance, you should. So should OKW have one too in your opinion or should only UKF get one?
Before you say it - Shrek isn't a snare.
Let's keep it constructive
30 Nov 2015, 19:47 PM
#53
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Firstly, what AchtAchter said was not disagreeing with you. He was pointing out holes in my argument which WAS disagreeing with you.
Secondly, OKW has no non-doctrinal snare either. Why aren't you calling for them to get one too? If you want balance, you should. So should OKW have one too in your opinion or should only UKF get one?
Before you say it - Shrek isn't a snare.
I've said it before, I'll say it yet again.
OKW doesn't have super fragile unit that can go down to a single burst from any weapon, which means they have nothing they would need to defend that bad.
OKW also have access to best infantry AT weapon, which is not only deterrent to light vehicles, but also hardcounter, their AT gun is quite spammable at 270mp and can camo, which ensures almost never being ambushed, because you can't ambush what you can't see or know where it is, especially now that its crew doesn't reveal its position, so they overcompensate for the lack of snare quite effectively and if they choose to go for doctrinal snare, they are getting actually very combat viable squad instead of one that happens to be "just not downgrade" at best after you counter the light.
Its pointless to mention OKW here, because they don't struggle with the issues UKF do.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Nov 2015, 20:06 PM
#55
Posts: 692
remove the pre-purchase requirement for AEC imo
30 Nov 2015, 20:17 PM
#57
Posts: 959
Firstly, what AchtAchter said was not disagreeing with you. He was pointing out holes in my argument which WAS disagreeing with you.
Secondly, OKW has no non-doctrinal snare either. Why aren't you calling for them to get one too? If you want balance, you should. So should OKW have one too in your opinion or should only UKF get one?
Before you say it - Shrek isn't a snare.
First of all, I know and I was not disagreeing with AchAtcher either
Second of all, OKW has snare in two very common doctrines
Third of all, go back read first post of this thread, Shreck is not snare, but what is snare? snare is a tool to deal with armor rush or to deter the early armor push, which Shreck provides u with THE BEST infantry based AT weapon of the game (without need to upgrade, and can be purchased even in non-friendly territory) so Actually OKW has the best of all army.
Fourth of all, it seems that u have almost never played Brits or against OKW at all, so not gonna bother discussing that with u
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