I think yes. Soviets would stop rely on commanders with tank call-ins, so more gameplay option would be available, after all UK have non-doctrinal Cromwell, Comet, Churchill, Firefly... Soviets have only obsolete T-34-76 (worst tank in the game) and mediocrate SU-85.
It should enter later then SU-85 and Panther similar to King Tiger, after an unlock or after all buildings constructed.
Even in vCOH US could upgrade their Shermans with 76 mm guns after some time. New faction were added to CoH2 so this should be looked into. Using non stop same 3-4 commanders with late call-in is getting boring.
Relic said T-34-85 will never be non doctrinal, but they also said they will never add Pershing.
Should T-34-85 be non doctrinal?
22 Nov 2015, 21:58 PM
#1
Posts: 344
22 Nov 2015, 22:06 PM
#2
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
T34/85 as non-doctrinal (all factions have at least one non-doc late game vehicle, except Soviets).
T34/76 as double call-in for 450MP 150F.
Done.
T34/76 as double call-in for 450MP 150F.
Done.
22 Nov 2015, 22:08 PM
#3
Posts: 211
yes!
Taking into consideration the overall late-war theme of CoH 2 I think it would contribute greatly to the atmosphere of the game seeing more T34/85s in the late-war surroundings that many maps present.
It's also a shame that such a representative piece of the soviet arsenal would be locked in only some of the doctrines.
In the end, CoH 2's problematic system of too many commanders is the reason why this request would now feel necessary. If some doctrinal units are not repeated in enough commanders they loose their representative power and don't feel like a full part of the corresponidng army anymore, but rather like sth that was pushed aside. Just look at how the 'Sturmtiger', often deemed kinda niché and obsolete, was ''put away'' in a commander. This is a direct consequence of the (IMO flawed) approach to commanders. A great number of commanders can be done (and is nice IMO), BUT doctinal units have to be in several commanders then to not get lost in the shuffle!
Taking into consideration the overall late-war theme of CoH 2 I think it would contribute greatly to the atmosphere of the game seeing more T34/85s in the late-war surroundings that many maps present.
It's also a shame that such a representative piece of the soviet arsenal would be locked in only some of the doctrines.
In the end, CoH 2's problematic system of too many commanders is the reason why this request would now feel necessary. If some doctrinal units are not repeated in enough commanders they loose their representative power and don't feel like a full part of the corresponidng army anymore, but rather like sth that was pushed aside. Just look at how the 'Sturmtiger', often deemed kinda niché and obsolete, was ''put away'' in a commander. This is a direct consequence of the (IMO flawed) approach to commanders. A great number of commanders can be done (and is nice IMO), BUT doctinal units have to be in several commanders then to not get lost in the shuffle!
22 Nov 2015, 22:21 PM
#4
Posts: 4928
If you asked me this last year, I would have said 'no'. But with the steady power creep OKW, USF, and British have introduced with their mediums, Ostheer and Soviet (especially Soviet) mediums have been left behind. With the theme moving to late-war, it only makes sense for the Soviet to be using their late-war tank.
The T-34/85 could be replaced in doctrine with IS-2, except in the case of Armored Assault, but there are plenty of replacement options like the KV-1 or T-34/76 if they decide to remove it from stock.
The T-34/85 could be replaced in doctrine with IS-2, except in the case of Armored Assault, but there are plenty of replacement options like the KV-1 or T-34/76 if they decide to remove it from stock.
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> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
22 Nov 2015, 22:34 PM
#5
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
what happends with the /76 model then? maybe put it in soviet industry as a double call in to fit the cheap and bad but spammy theme of it?
22 Nov 2015, 22:37 PM
#6
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
With okw having JP4 and P4 in the same tier I don't see a reason why soviets shouldn't have a su85 and a t34/85 in the same tier. Game changed a lot since brits came out.
People can deal with comets supported by crocs or avres. They will be also able to deal with t34/85 supported by isu/is2.
I also think that Australian magics idea is good, introducing a double call in of t34/76 seems neat.
People can deal with comets supported by crocs or avres. They will be also able to deal with t34/85 supported by isu/is2.
I also think that Australian magics idea is good, introducing a double call in of t34/76 seems neat.
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22 Nov 2015, 22:37 PM
#7
Posts: 836 | Subs: 5
Actually, that double t34/76 call in idea isn't bad, at all.
Maybe well see something like that after Relic is done fixing OKW.
Maybe well see something like that after Relic is done fixing OKW.
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22 Nov 2015, 22:42 PM
#8
Posts: 354
Yes for non doctrinal T-34/85 in T4, but I still would like to see T-34/76 in some doctrines, something like Australian Magic suggest or change it to OT-34/76 with hull flamer or low CP walue (4-5) with higher price.
22 Nov 2015, 22:42 PM
#9
Posts: 1891
I just think T34/76 should be price or performance buffed. Double call-in does sound kind of cool, but also really frustrating. Go only T2, and instead of saving for IS-2/ISU, get 4 tanks. I don't know, it seems like it could lead to cheese.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
22 Nov 2015, 22:48 PM
#10
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
I just think T34/76 should be price or performance buffed. Double call-in does sound kind of cool, but also really frustrating. Go only T2, and instead of saving for IS-2/ISU, get 4 tanks. I don't know, it seems like it could lead to cheese.
Are you afraid of 4 T34/76, the most crapiest tank in game?
22 Nov 2015, 22:55 PM
#11
Posts: 344
Not a bad idea, maybe T-34-76 could be a call-in like the StuG E or M10.
22 Nov 2015, 23:00 PM
#12
Posts: 521
+1
We could replace the T-34/85 call-in ability with a Soviet War Machine ability, lasts 60 seconds, and replaces every lost tank with a T-34/76.
We could replace the T-34/85 call-in ability with a Soviet War Machine ability, lasts 60 seconds, and replaces every lost tank with a T-34/76.
22 Nov 2015, 23:13 PM
#13
Posts: 4928
We could replace the T-34/85 call-in ability with a Soviet War Machine ability, lasts 60 seconds, and replaces every lost tank with a T-34/76.
War Machine was scrapped for a reason, there's no counter-play at all. Pop War Machine and suicide charge into enemy lines, the opponent is forced to either abandon everything and retreat, or risk his units fighting for zero benefit. Either way, there's nothing they can do to reduce your number of tanks for the duration, giving you free reign with no penalty.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
22 Nov 2015, 23:15 PM
#14
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
+1
We could replace the T-34/85 call-in ability with a Soviet War Machine ability, lasts 60 seconds, and replaces every lost tank with a T-34/76.
I disagree with this suggestion, such abilities are very poor gameplay. It runs contrary to the veterancy system pervading the game, rewards poor play, and in terms of actual potential value in use probably will be extremely swingy (compare to Recoup Losses, which can let the player save some manpower from model losses [which for the record I'm not a huge fan of either]. This Soviet War Machine concept would instead let a player save significantly more manpower and fuel per tank loss, or possibly "get" more resources out of the deal by suiciding a T-70 for it).
22 Nov 2015, 23:45 PM
#15
Posts: 521
snip
snip
You both are right, I didn't really think it through.
22 Nov 2015, 23:48 PM
#16
Posts: 179
T34/85 becomes Stock Unit
SU85 gets buffed
T34/76 becomes a doctrinal with a 5CP lock and can be built from T0 HQ.
SU85 gets buffed
T34/76 becomes a doctrinal with a 5CP lock and can be built from T0 HQ.
23 Nov 2015, 00:40 AM
#17
Posts: 935
First of all both of those thanks must have good vet and stock ability. Something like "flank speed". Coz it was a fast flanking tank.
23 Nov 2015, 01:05 AM
#18
Posts: 521
First of all both of those thanks must have good vet and stock ability. Something like "flank speed". Coz it was a fast flanking tank.
No, no, no, don't you realize how useful ramming and capping points is?
23 Nov 2015, 01:08 AM
#19
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
No, no, no, don't you realize how useful ramming and capping points is?
One year ago
, I capped a VP with my IS2 tank and won the game.#CappingIsUseful
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23 Nov 2015, 01:20 AM
#20
Posts: 344
Ramming was very powerful on CoH2 release. This was the flavor of the T-34, it was build before Pz IV, cheap and weak but it could be sacrificed in the late game to destroy the gun and engine of a Tiger or Panther so SU-85 can finish it off.
But now T-34-76 was moved to T4 and ramming was overnerfed so for 80 fuel most times it only stun the enemy tank so its meh.
Now even if the T-34 will ram a kubel it's gun and engine will be destroyed.
But now T-34-76 was moved to T4 and ramming was overnerfed so for 80 fuel most times it only stun the enemy tank so its meh.
Now even if the T-34 will ram a kubel it's gun and engine will be destroyed.
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