UKF Sniper Critical Shot

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2015, 14:31 PMChocoboknight88

I'd like to retract my previous grievances regarding Critical Shot. It would seems it has remained unchanged and the change indeed only affects the Sniper's normal shots. I would have known this sooner if it weren't for the fact it took almost two hours to get the mod to work...

Oh well. Still, go ahead and continue your discussion on the ability itself then.

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2015, 15:13 PMtenid

Really, I love how the "shouldn't counter" etc argument is very, very one sided.

For starters, a snare more or less is a soft counter, more so when it's at range since you have plenty of space to get out of a bad situation.

The light vehicles as a sniper counter is again a very one sided argument since brits don't have any worthwile light vehicles.

Have a look at the british position vs snipers for example. You have two, maybe 3 options to to deal with ost snipers. The UC, which is worthless as a counter since grenadiers more or less counter it entirely. As do MG42s if they want to use incendiary rounds. You have the sniper itself to countersnipe, an option obviously open to the ostheer as well. Your last option is to try and set up a bofors before you get pushed off the map. Other than that you have to just hope you don't lose too much before you can roll out proper armour.

Are we seeing buffs to the UC's survivability or mobility to "help out"? Are grenadiers going to have the faust moved to vet 1 to make counterplay with virtually non-existant british light vehicles more viable? When it comes to light vehicles and their counters, the odds are already stacked quite strongly in favour of axis factions.

Feel free to correct me or provide other sniper counter options if you wish. It's entirely possible I've missed some. But all I see in this change is stacking the sniper game further in favour of the axis factions.

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2015, 13:39 PMAchtAchter

From the Relic changes notes:



Whole post can be found here

The At Rifle does damage additional damage to vehicles when you protect it behind packs. I personally managed to take out medium tanks with it by hitting the rear Armour. It's also useful to destroy team weapons, especially in early-mid game where you don't really have the tanks to do that.

Like I said, Relic intends the UC, 222, M20, Kübel & M3 to be counter for snipers. Whether this is true is up for discussion (I personally don't agree).

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2015, 15:38 PMBananenheld

So has Ost trouble with soviet sniper ( equal skill Player soviet sniper will always win due 2 models ) , it's called assymetrical Design

MG needs vet btw for their super rounds just like the Brit sniper now needs vet to Start counter vehicles too

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2015, 16:29 PMtenid

Yes I'm well aware that the incendiary rounds need vet 1. Unlike the brit sniper shot it absolutely murders anything that comes near it though.

Asymmetic design seems to be thrown around here as an argument for why axis should just plain be better! Yes, the soviet sniper can cause trouble for ost with their lower rate of fire. It also neatly leaves them open to axis T2 with its 222 and 251 but crucially the soviet player can limit the damage with AT nades.

My point is that the brit sniper critical shot limits the damage from early light vehicle play in the same way as AT nades and that ost players in particular can hardly complain about the matchup being evened out rather than having the brit simply screwed from sniper/222 combo play.

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2015, 15:38 PMBananenheld

So has Ost trouble with soviet sniper ( equal skill Player soviet sniper will always win due 2 models ) , it's called assymetrical Design

MG needs vet btw for their super rounds just like the Brit sniper now needs vet to Start counter vehicles too

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2015, 15:38 PMBananenheld

So has Ost trouble with soviet sniper ( equal skill Player soviet sniper will always win due 2 models ) , it's called assymetrical Design

Actually I kinda wanna disagree. I tried T1 with a sniper to countersnipe devm's sniper in OCF. The Soviet sniper team is extremely clumsy. The moment it steps out of cover it decloaks meanwhile its Ostheer counterpart can walk from one side of the map to another while beeing camouflaged. This means that the Soviet sniper is only able to countersnipe once you pushed your opponent back and set up an ambush. Which is rarely happening since you are short on infantry (maybe 2,3 cons against MG42, 3 Grens, Sniper) and give up a lot of early map control which you would have with a 3 Con T2 opening. Plus the danger of a 222 forces you to either pick a doctrine for guards or T2 for AT gun. If you just go AT nades you will be pushed back eventually.

I really wish that Soviet sniper was just one guy with decent camouflage for manouvering. Plus the spotter is super awkward since he shoots sometimes by himself, revealing the other sniper too. Good players can deal with Soviet sniper quite well to be honest.

Jump back to quoted post22 Nov 2015, 14:28 PMelchino7

Luvnest words.

Jump back to quoted post22 Nov 2015, 20:09 PMiTzDusty

Man you people are clueless.

Watch Paula play his typical 3 IS 1-2 Vickers 2 Snipers 2 AT Gun strat.

You literally can't use dedicated sniper hunter platforms (you know, the 222 that got buffed accuracy vs snipers SPECIFICALLY) because they get instantly critted, and then kited to death at max range.

I don't see how being able to hard counter your own hard counter is proper balance.

Y'all can bitch about the Brit sniper being "bad" but obviously top level Brit players disagree when they all get two snipers MINIMUM.

Jump back to quoted post22 Nov 2015, 20:22 PMcomm_ash

Look at it this way dusty, the issue with changing the sniper is that it is the Brits sole snare at this point in the game (unless you go weapons doctrine). Every other faction with snipers have access to snares so that they can actively screen their snipers. Without any snare on the entire brit early game, you make snipers unviable because they become impossible to defend.

I agree that the sniper needs changes (50 range 100%pen snare isn't very balanced), but it is currently holding together the brit early-mid game (hence why people use it so often). Something needs to give in exchange so that you can actually actively screen your snipers.

Mines don't really count because you can't actively screen with them. They are also only useful on maps with bottlenecks at the early stages when you have a sniper vs. 222 matchup, since you don't have the munitions for many.

I would say that IS or RE should get some kind of snare, so that they can discourage light vehicles from ignoring them ad going straight for the sniper.

Jump back to quoted post22 Nov 2015, 20:22 PMcomm_ash

Look at it this way dusty, the issue with changing the sniper is that it is the Brits sole snare at this point in the game (unless you go weapons doctrine). Every other faction with snipers have access to snares so that they can actively screen their snipers. Without any snare on the entire brit early game, you make snipers unviable because they become impossible to defend.

I agree that the sniper needs changes (50 range 100%pen snare isn't very balanced), but it is currently holding together the brit early-mid game (hence why people use it so often). Something needs to give in exchange so that you can actually actively screen your snipers.

Mines don't really count because you can't actively screen with them. They are also only useful on maps with bottlenecks at the early stages when you have a sniper vs. 222 matchup, since you don't have the munitions for many.

I would say that IS or RE should get some kind of snare, so that they can discourage light vehicles from ignoring them ad going straight for the sniper.

Jump back to quoted post22 Nov 2015, 20:09 PMiTzDusty

Man you people are clueless.

Watch Paula play his typical 3 IS 1-2 Vickers 2 Snipers 2 AT Gun strat.

You literally can't use dedicated sniper hunter platforms (you know, the 222 that got buffed accuracy vs snipers SPECIFICALLY) because they get instantly critted, and then kited to death at max range.

I don't see how being able to hard counter your own hard counter is proper balance.

Y'all can bitch about the Brit sniper being "bad" but obviously top level Brit players disagree when they all get two snipers MINIMUM.

Jump back to quoted post22 Nov 2015, 20:34 PMKatitof

Thats different how to sniper behind grens or sniper behind guards/AT nade cons?

You don't really have snipers alone on the field.

You see two snipers, because only real alternative is dual bren on tommies. Sniper is also only way to crit vehicles for brits, yes there are "at" tommies, but their reliability leaves much to be desired, especially now that they are cannon fodder on preview.

Jump back to quoted post22 Nov 2015, 20:38 PMiTzDusty

Because you are using multiple units to protect each other?

I mean 1+1 = 2. Con defends sniper, Guard defends sniper, Gren defends sniper. How is that in ANY way similar to a sniper defending itself?

Katitof please.