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russian armor

suppression and the OKW...

22 Nov 2015, 09:05 AM
#21
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Nov 2015, 08:05 AMRMMLz


Dude did you even read the post you quoted?

Back to topic.

OKW needs a suppression platform, and at the current state they need it early since HMG34 doesn't do enough damage so it takes a long time to vet it. The simplest solution is to make HMG34 non-doctrinal and in HQ. If we want more flavor (especially for people who say OKW will be Whermact V.2.) you can move HMG34 one of the tech buildings, but either buff its damage or greatly reduce its XP requirement.


I think the flak HT need a buff instead. The flak HT should get access to smoke by default, but the ability should cost munition as well.
22 Nov 2015, 09:09 AM
#22
avatar of oakdk
Patrion 14

Posts: 73

Hmm OKW neeeds an MG, again if you have to go flak ht everytime, it will be borring, because as allied you know what to expect
22 Nov 2015, 09:31 AM
#23
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Nov 2015, 09:09 AMoakdk
Hmm OKW neeeds an MG, again if you have to go flak ht everytime, it will be borring, because as allied you know what to expect


how is getting a flak HT every time different from getting a mg every time?
22 Nov 2015, 09:48 AM
#24
avatar of MoerserKarL
Donator 22

Posts: 1108

funny when people in this thread argue, that your mid/late game suppression platform a AA halftrack/Flack HQ is.

OKW simply lack of suppression and thats a fact. Even more when they remove the leig supression(the nerf was needed for the leig/pack howie)
22 Nov 2015, 10:08 AM
#25
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



how is getting a flak HT every time different from getting a mg every time?

It'll become pure gold when he'll try to counter it with "fuel unit" argument now, that penalty doesn't exist :thumbsup:

And hey! USF was using M15 for a long time as a suppression and damage unit because .50 cal was shit!
22 Nov 2015, 11:10 AM
#26
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Nov 2015, 09:09 AMoakdk
Hmm OKW neeeds an MG, again if you have to go flak ht everytime, it will be borring, because as allied you know what to expect


the suppression is not actually needed. and neither is the mg34 or the okw flaktrack. the okw flak need some buffs however its way to unreliable
22 Nov 2015, 12:29 PM
#27
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 611

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Nov 2015, 08:05 AMRMMLz


Dude did you even read the post you quoted?

Back to topic.

OKW needs a suppression platform, and at the current state they need it early since HMG34 doesn't do enough damage so it takes a long time to vet it. The simplest solution is to make HMG34 non-doctrinal and in HQ. If we want more flavor (especially for people who say OKW will be Whermact V.2.) you can move HMG34 one of the tech buildings, but either buff its damage or greatly reduce its XP requirement.

Regarding USF, they have enough light Armor and their infantry is still good (even after nerf) so they are not desperately in need of a suppression platform. But, for the sake of LT tier, I would like to see a change to make it more appealing. A slight fuel reduction for Cpt if you've already called in the LT might be a good start. Right now, the only use of LT is the shock value of AAHT and if you lose it, it's GG.


Adding mg34 to hq would simply see okw rushing Sp and mg to opponents cutoff every game which is not good for gameplay. SP are best opening unit in game, its only reasonable that you cannot build mg at 0.00 to suport it.

Next patch will improve many of the okw flaws, although i think it will still be a blob faction due to schrecks on volks. Improving suppression will simply make it op again.
22 Nov 2015, 12:45 PM
#28
avatar of Adrien_Fowl

Posts: 47

I just can't understand while the OKW just can't have a non doctrinal MG. It makes no sense at all. You don't want to have an MG as a HQ unit, that's fine. But it should be part of the medic truck or something like that.
22 Nov 2015, 12:54 PM
#29
avatar of Danigermid

Posts: 60

Soviets have no stock tanks? :foreveralone:


they have but did they have good ones that can compare to panther ? or pz4 okw version or non doctrinal KT ?
Also not op jgpz4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRB1vIvTIE0&list=WL&index=236
22 Nov 2015, 12:55 PM
#30
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1



I think the flak HT need a buff instead. The flak HT should get access to smoke by default, but the ability should cost munition as well.



Maybe, but I don't think a simple smoke changes anything. An ATG still shuts it down and makes it useless. I would say lower its damage and give it the ability to fire on the move (or at least fire when stationary without a set up time). It would be a glorified M5 Quad though.





Adding mg34 to hq would simply see okw rushing Sp and mg to opponents cutoff every game which is not good for gameplay. SP are best opening unit in game, its only reasonable that you cannot build mg at 0.00 to suport it.

Next patch will improve many of the okw flaws, although i think it will still be a blob faction due to schrecks on volks. Improving suppression will simply make it op again.


SPs are close quarter units and their mid damage is not that good. They are also not very durable, but still they can add HMG in another building to delay it if that proves to be an issue. Early game infantry based suppression platform should be available for all factions. It's the case for every faction, even USF have access to 50 cal but we don't see it often because of the LT tier.

22 Nov 2015, 13:03 PM
#31
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3



they have but did they have good ones that can compare to panther ? or pz4 okw version or non doctrinal KT ?
Also not op jgpz4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRB1vIvTIE0&list=WL&index=236


Yep, that's why it's the MG34, the cheapest HMG with lowest dps. See it as the T34/76 of all HMGs.
22 Nov 2015, 13:06 PM
#32
avatar of Cultist_kun

Posts: 295 | Subs: 1

Give OKW non doc MG34 in Med HQ
Place IGs into Mech HQ
Replace MG34 in commanders with MG42 for 280

1) OKW suppresion unit and anti blob counter - fixed
2) Reason to to for Mech HQ over med HQ - fixed
3) Reason to have mech+med over med+Flak HQ - fixed
4) IGs + Flak HQ spam with constant reinforcing and protection - fixed

Ppl who is saying that "there is no reason to pick MG42 over MG34"
1) You can have both mech HQ+MG
2) MG42 still the best MG in the game
22 Nov 2015, 13:11 PM
#33
avatar of Fluffi

Posts: 211

If the mg34 was in more doctrines, that would also be nice.

I am generally against repeating commander abilities. But call in units should be the exception. In CoH 1, it was okay if Rangers, Stormtroopers etc were only in 1 doctrine... because they were thereby in 33.3% of the doctrines. In CoH 2, with so many doctrines, some call in units become so seldom because they are only in 1 doctrine. I think things like Mg34 or Panzerfusiliers should be repeated in some doctrines to make them feel less like sth that doesn't really legitimately exist as a viable and noteable part of a faction. I was hoping that in the newer commanders these units would appear. But they did not. And look at Feuersturm doctrine now.
22 Nov 2015, 13:12 PM
#34
avatar of oakdk
Patrion 14

Posts: 73

My point is OKW needs a non doc mg of som kind
22 Nov 2015, 13:17 PM
#35
avatar of Fluffi

Posts: 211

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Nov 2015, 13:12 PMoakdk
My point is OKW needs a non doc mg of som kind


I know and I am not against it.
But, if the mg was in more doctrines, I imagine complaints about it's absence in the non-doctinal arsenal would be fewer. With so many commanders, Relic need to repeat call in units in order to not make them feel half-absent from the corresponding faction. My point is, the idea of doctrinal mgs could've worked if Relic had handled commanders differenlty concerning the frequency of call in units in them.
22 Nov 2015, 13:36 PM
#36
avatar of Danigermid

Posts: 60



Yep, that's why it's the MG34, the cheapest HMG with lowest dps. See it as the T34/76 of all HMGs.


yeah, ok but still can suppress and do some dmg and what about T34/76 it can what "RAM" (useless, dmg your engine and most likely gun while enemy can run away or kill u then run), for doing dmg ok but first u have to hit something and with t34/76 u are lucky if u do that (somewhere on this site was video of t34/76 hiting pz4 in close combat like 2 times while fired 8/9 shots)
22 Nov 2015, 14:26 PM
#37
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

yea, i dont like it either that kubels suppression got removed. youre now forced to either get a 55fuel flak ht which can get easily counter or pick a mg34 doctrine. for one of the most basic features of the game.
22 Nov 2015, 15:00 PM
#38
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824

For a year and a half now I have gone Luftwaffe supply in 70% of the OKW games I have played. I will go for the other doctrines every now and then for a change up but MG34s and back-up elite troops in Falls has been my main strategy for all this time. I find the MG34 is only good right after you unlock it, but then quickly dies or becomes obsolete to infantry swarms. It was only ever a small speed-bump to my opponents, which OKW needs to slow down the early capping scramble. With the buff to early game OKW units and the capping of the Kubel, it might not even be necessary anymore.
23 Nov 2015, 08:28 AM
#39
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 611

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Nov 2015, 12:55 PMRMMLz



Maybe, but I don't think a simple smoke changes anything. An ATG still shuts it down and makes it useless. I would say lower its damage and give it the ability to fire on the move (or at least fire when stationary without a set up time). It would be a glorified M5 Quad though.





SPs are close quarter units and their mid damage is not that good. They are also not very durable, but still they can add HMG in another building to delay it if that proves to be an issue. Early game infantry based suppression platform should be available for all factions. It's the case for every faction, even USF have access to 50 cal but we don't see it often because of the LT tier.



I had a game on weekend on Arnhem Approach where two riflemen and two SP engaged at cutoff near church. First engagement so both squads at full health. Each side entered green cover at same time. The engagement took place at what i would consider mid range. The sp's took no casualties whilest I lost one rifle on retreat,even though i had 2 men left and was moving away from engagement. The other squad got away with 2 men.

Maybe it was unlucky rng, I know it happens sometimes but this is not an isolated incident although certainly the worst.

Mg34/sp combo would be just as effective imo and with sp likely to get a price decrease next patch this combo will be even stronger.

The factions that get early mgs do not have cq units the calibre on sp from the start and that is why okw cannot have a t0 mg.

Add it to t2 where it cannot be abused.
23 Nov 2015, 08:47 AM
#40
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

Give OKW non-doctrinal MG and make OH useless.
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