Kubels can't suppress, Leig won't suppress (for better or worse)
the only way to suppress (without doctrines) is by going mechanized and getting the flacktrack...or getting obersoldaten to vet 4 or 5 (i can't remember which)...
sure the OKW might be able to do rush a flacktrack right after the patch quickly since they now get full resources and prices haven't been adjusted, but the resource income and cost of vehicles and teching is going to be adjusted by relic since more than enough people seem to be whining about it...after that happens, i believe evidence that OKW have a lack of suppression will obviously come through and it'll be rougher to fight blobs of infantry, right?
now, i do NOT want a non-doctrinal HMG for the OKW because i think it's just going to end up making them similar to the Ostheer which is boring...
something about this doesn't seem right to me x~x
does it really not get under many other peoples skin?
suppression and the OKW...
21 Nov 2015, 02:50 AM
#1
Posts: 59
21 Nov 2015, 03:00 AM
#2
Posts: 1930
in my experience, the lack of suppression isn't really a problem, in the beginning anyway.
In the early game, the volks with sturm is capable of fighting against conscript and rifleman without the need of a hmg.
The problem is when the conscript and rifleman reach terminator vet and completely outscale the axis infantry. It is more of a problem with the terminator vet.
The other problem is that LeIG had become reliant on its suppression. It needs a ROF and/or AOE buff in exchange for the suppression removal. It also need to do damage to garrison. The allies all have hmg the OKW need to deal with.
Lastly, the flak ht is technically the OKW's suppression platform, it just have crap survivability.
In the early game, the volks with sturm is capable of fighting against conscript and rifleman without the need of a hmg.
The problem is when the conscript and rifleman reach terminator vet and completely outscale the axis infantry. It is more of a problem with the terminator vet.
The other problem is that LeIG had become reliant on its suppression. It needs a ROF and/or AOE buff in exchange for the suppression removal. It also need to do damage to garrison. The allies all have hmg the OKW need to deal with.
Lastly, the flak ht is technically the OKW's suppression platform, it just have crap survivability.
21 Nov 2015, 03:30 AM
#3
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Lastly, the flak ht is technically the OKW's suppression platform, it just have crap survivability.
All you need to do is to back up your blob with an AT gun and the Flak HT is completely shut down. Any HMG with a spotter has a better survivability.
The HMG 34 does hardly any damage, it's only job is to suppress, that's why it hardly will touch faction balance, as OKW is not OP when using a doctrine with the HMG 34.
As Firesparks stated the problem is not really the early game, that's why you can put a HMG in T2 or T3.
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21 Nov 2015, 04:06 AM
#4
Posts: 1384
All you need to do is to back up your blob with an AT gun and the Flak HT is completely shut down.
No it isn't. It depends on where you put your flak HT silly.
Also if you flank the AT gun, you can threaten it and the blob won't be able to retaliate because it will be suppressed.
It's like saying that if you have a machine gun behind your blob, infantry are useless. The difference here is that a mistake with vehicle positioning is punished much more harshly than one with infantry, but the concept is exactly the same.
That said, this is why the kubel was awesome. AT guns had a hell of a time hitting it giving you more time to suppress + eliminate the AT gun. The flak HT isn't as lucky, unfortunately.
21 Nov 2015, 04:53 AM
#5
7 
Posts: 1664
I find it a bit odd that both commanders that give OKW an MG34 are the same commanders that give the flak emplacement and MG bunker... seems like overkill and that suppression could be spread among commanders.
21 Nov 2015, 05:02 AM
#6
Posts: 760
in my experience, the lack of suppression isn't really a problem, in the beginning anyway.Stop posting false information cons don't out scale axis infantry
In the early game, the volks with sturm is capable of fighting against conscript and rifleman without the need of a hmg.
The problem is when the conscript and rifleman reach terminator vet and completely outscale the axis infantry. It is more of a problem with the terminator vet.
The other problem is that LeIG had become reliant on its suppression. It needs a ROF and/or AOE buff in exchange for the suppression removal. It also need to do damage to garrison. The allies all have hmg the OKW need to deal with.
Lastly, the flak ht is technically the OKW's suppression platform, it just have crap survivability.
21 Nov 2015, 05:12 AM
#7
Posts: 1930
No it isn't. It depends on where you put your flak HT silly.
Also if you flank the AT gun, you can threaten it and the blob won't be able to retaliate because it will be suppressed.
It's like saying that if you have a machine gun behind your blob, infantry are useless. The difference here is that a mistake with vehicle positioning is punished much more harshly than one with infantry, but the concept is exactly the same.
That said, this is why the kubel was awesome. AT guns had a hell of a time hitting it giving you more time to suppress + eliminate the AT gun. The flak HT isn't as lucky, unfortunately.
use flak ht on an open field and it get killed by atg.
use flak on a urban field and it get swarmed by infantry coming from 12 different direction.
21 Nov 2015, 05:22 AM
#8
Posts: 2561
They still do have the Flack HQ and the flak halftrack, so they aren't completely devoid of suppression. And the they have literally 0 other weaknesses and are easily the strongest faction in the game in the mod.
USF has no anti-garrison and brits have no mobile indirect. OKW has to be weak somewhere.
USF has no anti-garrison and brits have no mobile indirect. OKW has to be weak somewhere.
21 Nov 2015, 06:42 AM
#9
Posts: 46
It does not need to turn the RCC in the Wehrmacht. We need to improve on folksgrenadery MP-40 and to win back from a weak universal infantry + melee - engineers in the early game. Instead of suppressing the LG18 be issued smoke shells and incendiary kummulyativnye. Remove fully automatic firing of LH-18 - just firing abilities.
21 Nov 2015, 07:03 AM
#10
Posts: 951
I would suggest moving the MG34 to T1, replaces Kubel.
Move Kubel to Luftwaffe Doctrine, 1CP, 210MP 5 FU.
Fortification gets IR HT instead of MG34, 4 CP, same cost.
Move Obers to BHQ and lock LMG34 to Mech/Schwerer, IR StG44 from SpecOps unaffected by tech.
Move Kubel to Luftwaffe Doctrine, 1CP, 210MP 5 FU.
Fortification gets IR HT instead of MG34, 4 CP, same cost.
Move Obers to BHQ and lock LMG34 to Mech/Schwerer, IR StG44 from SpecOps unaffected by tech.
NON VOS TURBATIS
21 Nov 2015, 07:58 AM
#11
Posts: 692
The problem is when the conscript reach terminator vet and completely outscale the axis infantry. It is more of a problem with the terminator vet.
LOL
21 Nov 2015, 08:33 AM
#12
Posts: 1930
Stop posting false information cons don't out scale axis infantry
volks total bonus at vet 5:
1.495 weapon accuracy, .81 incoming accuracy, .64 weapon cooldown, .70 reload, + 7 sight, hp regen
conscript total bonus at vet 3:
1.4 weapon accuracy, 1.25 range on molotov, .75 recharge on at nade; .8 weapon cooldown; .6 received accuracy
needing to take a schreck severely hurt the volk's capability to fight infantry. Conscript will also reach vet 3 a lot sooner than volks reach vet5.
LOL
I said conscript and rifleman, not just conscript. don't just start editing my post.
21 Nov 2015, 12:33 PM
#13
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
They still do have the Flack HQ and the flak halftrack, so they aren't completely devoid of suppression. And the they have literally 0 other weaknesses and are easily the strongest faction in the game in the mod.
USF has no anti-garrison and brits have no mobile indirect. OKW has to be weak somewhere.
So remove the maxim as soviets have the quad?(I don't mean it serious) Flawless logic. Also what you say is not true.
Usf have smoke, nades, white phosphor & flamers in doctrines to move units out of buildings.
Again, okw already has the MG 34. They are not op with it when it's on the field. You rather use it in bad situations when you need to hold allied blobs back.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
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21 Nov 2015, 20:04 PM
#14
Posts: 166
The problem is when the conscript and rifleman reach terminator vet and completely outscale the axis infantry. It is more of a problem with the terminator vet.
USF is supposed to have better infantry because of their shit armor. Conscripts at Vet 3 are no match for any of the Vetted Axis infantry and only stand a slim chance when armed with ppsh at close range.
21 Nov 2015, 20:36 PM
#15
Posts: 760
volks total bonus at vet 5:
1.495 weapon accuracy, .81 incoming accuracy, .64 weapon cooldown, .70 reload, + 7 sight, hp regen
conscript total bonus at vet 3:
1.4 weapon accuracy, 1.25 range on molotov, .75 recharge on at nade; .8 weapon cooldown; .6 received accuracy
needing to take a schreck severely hurt the volk's capability to fight infantry. Conscript will also reach vet 3 a lot sooner than volks reach vet5.
I said conscript and rifleman, not just conscript. don't just start editing my post.
That doesn't change the fact that conscripts perform worst than any other line infantry in the game. Even volks are better than conscripts.
22 Nov 2015, 00:35 AM
#16
Posts: 1891
OKW lack of suppression is not bad when you look at the big picture.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
22 Nov 2015, 01:07 AM
#17
Posts: 824
OKW lack of suppression is not bad when you look at the big picture.
I agree, before OKW didn't have a good cheap harassment unit. Volks were just terrible at everything except scaring low HP vehicles. Now with capping Kubel and more armor it can flank and harass better allowing OKW to function more like USF and Soviet armies where they spread the fighting out rather than try to hold one fuel and one VP and tech for superior armor like Ostheer and Brits. I say try it out, the upgraded Volks do much better in combat and the capping Kubel is incredible at harassing.
Youtube Streaming: https://www.youtube.com/@broodwarjc1517/streams
22 Nov 2015, 01:59 AM
#18
Posts: 60
in my experience, the lack of suppression isn't really a problem, in the beginning anyway.
In the early game, the volks with sturm is capable of fighting against conscript and rifleman without the need of a hmg.
The problem is when the conscript and rifleman reach terminator vet and completely outscale the axis infantry. It is more of a problem with the terminator vet.
The other problem is that LeIG had become reliant on its suppression. It needs a ROF and/or AOE buff in exchange for the suppression removal. It also need to do damage to garrison. The allies all have hmg the OKW need to deal with.
Lastly, the flak ht is technically the OKW's suppression platform, it just have crap survivability.
All you need to do is to back up your blob with an AT gun and the Flak HT is completely shut down. Any HMG with a spotter has a better survivability.
The HMG 34 does hardly any damage, it's only job is to suppress, that's why it hardly will touch faction balance, as OKW is not OP when using a doctrine with the HMG 34.
As Firesparks stated the problem is not really the early game, that's why you can put a HMG in T2 or T3.
I see 2 okw fanboys...
Back to Thread
OKW is good as it is u need suppresion u go for doctrine (same as for soviets need tanks go for doc) if u don't go for doc u have other options i don't mean a suppresion options but good AI so, for me not a big deal
22 Nov 2015, 05:12 AM
#19
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Soviets have no stock tanks?
OKW is good as it is u need suppresion u go for doctrine (same as for soviets need tanks go for doc) if u don't go for doc u have other options i don't mean a suppresion options but good AI so, for me not a big deal
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
22 Nov 2015, 08:05 AM
#20
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
That doesn't change the fact that conscripts perform worst than any other line infantry in the game. Even volks are better than conscripts.
Dude did you even read the post you quoted?
Back to topic.
OKW needs a suppression platform, and at the current state they need it early since HMG34 doesn't do enough damage so it takes a long time to vet it. The simplest solution is to make HMG34 non-doctrinal and in HQ. If we want more flavor (especially for people who say OKW will be Whermact V.2.) you can move HMG34 one of the tech buildings, but either buff its damage or greatly reduce its XP requirement.
Regarding USF, they have enough light Armor and their infantry is still good (even after nerf) so they are not desperately in need of a suppression platform. But, for the sake of LT tier, I would like to see a change to make it more appealing. A slight fuel reduction for Cpt if you've already called in the LT might be a good start. Right now, the only use of LT is the shock value of AAHT and if you lose it, it's GG.
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